[Vnbiz] China reasserts claim on South China Sea islands, but says it's open to talks with Vietnam

Fri Jan 25 10:43:04 PST 2008

Hi Sis Thuy and CACC,
   Sis, from my personal experience 'on the inside' of Navy Intelligence 
circles, I can tell you that the U.S., Japan and Australia have the 
Truong Sa issues much higher on there "to be watched" list than all of 
the other littoral states concerned.

   What Vietnamese people need to understand is that the Hoang Sa have 
been lost to China forever, and the Truong Sa will NEVER be totally 
Vietnamese. These are the facts as I see them. It would take a book to 
explain why, but over 10 years of having to report military commanders 
and politicians about these very issues has led me to arrive at this 
conclusion.

   Before anybody raises their voices and shouts me down, it might be a 
good idea to look at the history of Vietnam. There is a very, very good 
reason why Cambodians refer to a very large part of the Mekong Delta in 
the current State of Vietnam as "Kampuchea Krom" - Southern Cambodia. 
The reason is that the Vietnamese Kinh peoples invaded those lands and 
incorporated that area into what has become the Vietnam of today. Will 
you give up your 'rights' to these parts of the Mekong Delta? 

   Sis Thuy, most of the other countries with a 'stake' in the Spratlys 
rarely "rise to the bait" of Beijing sabre-rattling because they know 
the Chinese are incapable of forcing all of them out of this area of the 
SCS, either politically, economically or militarily.

   Vietnam is the loudest and most vociferous opponent of Chinese words 
and actions in regard to this issue. For that, the Government and the 
people should be commended. However, it would serve all of us well to 
remember that the current Nation State has been established by the Kinh 
people conquering lands once possessed by others!

   We live in a "glass house", let us not throw rocks at others!

Shane
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Shane Wall
Managing Director

Trans Lingual Express
188/16 Nguyen Thuong Hien St,
P.1, Q. Go Vap, HCMC,
Vietnam

Mail: shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
Web: www.translingualexpress.com

Ph: +84 (8) 588 1701

Mbl: +84 (090) 9484 753 (English)
Mbl: +84 (090) 7885 375 (Vietnamese)

Thuy Reed wrote:
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dear Brothers and Sisters,
>
> As one who sees glass half-full, I take anh Shane's thoughful remark 
> as a good thing. In today's world, where new technology has erased all 
> borders, it seems to me once the delineation is set and time to 
> develope, whoever owns the territory still has to call in foreign 
> investors. The matter is not in the name anymore. It is in the game.
>  
> Furthermore, I welcome all this as an opportunity for all concerned 
> American Viets to have an open debate about what to do 
> with today's Viet Nam. And again, it is a good thing.
>  
> And relating to anh Shane's NOTE 1 below. Please, anyone ... I am 
> curious about the attitude in other countries of this issue.
>  
> L&P,
> Thuy Reed
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Shane Wall <shane.wall at translingualexpress.com>
> To: vnbiz at vietlinks.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:26:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vnbiz] China reasserts claim on South China Sea islands, 
> but says it's open to talks with Vietnam
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
> Sorry CACC,
>   Many, many people will not like to read this, but this is my analysis
> of this issue.
>
>   I believe China is playing the "time game" with regard to the Hoang
> Sa (Paracels). In English we say "Possession is nine tenths of the law".
> Rightly or wrongly, China now physically controls the Hoang Sa. China
> and Vietnam both know that Vietnam is not militarily strong enough to
> 'retake/invade [depending on your view]' this island group. End result?
> Barring any unforeseen internal political event in either country,
> absolutely NO amount of talks, discussions, agreements to talk again,
> etc. will change this situation. Status quo. Bye bye Hoang Sa for Vietnam.
>
>   The Truong Sa (Spratlys**) is an entirely different issue - that is
> EXACTLY why the Chinese do NOT include them in the current negotiations
> [See Note 1]. The Vietnamese side knows it does not have the resources
> to defend their claims against Chinese aggression, if that ever happens,
> while the Chinese side also understands that a 'bold military move' into
> this region of the South China Sea will likely bring Indonesia, the
> Philippines, Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei Darusalaam and Taiwan into the
> equation! China does not want to engage ALL of these different countries
> of a single issue, least they find a "common enemy" and join forces!
>
>   People should not delude themselves about what is on the table for
> negotiation at these talks. Vietnam and China are ONLY talking about the
> Northern Gulf of Tonkin, the "Vinh Bac Bo", based around Bach Long Vi as
> one of the major geographical reference points. These current
> discussions DO NOT include the Paracels or Spratlys, although a
> successful conclusion at these talks /may/ lead to extending the talks
> to focus on these two emotive issues.
>
> END RESULT:
> China will continue to control the Hoang Sa long into the predictable
> future.
> Vietnam will continue to control its current possessions in the Truong
> Sa long into the predicable future.
>
> The above is a "cold-hearted, hard-headed, unemotional" intelligence
> assessment of the situation at this point in history. It is in no way
> related to, or a reflection of what I personally think, feel or want. It
> is only my professional assessment of the situation.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> ** How many of my Bros & Sis have ever been to the Spratly Islands?
> While I have never actually set foot on any of the islands, cays or
> reefs, I have sailed through them 3 times - not a pleasant experience
> for an Australian Navy sailor when you know the Chinese garrison over
> there on your left AND the Vietnamese garrison over their on your right
> BOTH have their guns pointing at YOU!
>
> NOTE 1:  While China may publicly profess to " ... posses indisputable
> sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and the adjoining
> waters...", they know as well as everybody else that this 'claim' will
> mean that the Chinese would 'own' the Philippines, eastern Malaysia and
> Brunei, parts of Indonesia, Singapore and all non-contiguous waters
> claimed by Vietnam, Taiwan and even Japan!
>
>
> Shane
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. Shane Wall
> Managing Director
>
> Trans Lingual Express
> 188/16 Nguyen Thuong Hien St,
> P.1, Q. Go Vap, HCMC,
> Vietnam
>
> Mail: shane.wall at translingualexpress.com 
> <mailto:shane.wall at translingualexpress.com>
> Web: www.translingualexpress.com <http://www.translingualexpress.com/>
>
> Ph: +84 (8) 588 1701
>
> Mbl: +84 (090) 9484 753 (English)
> Mbl: +84 (090) 7885 375 (Vietnamese)
>
>
>
> Tai Phan wrote:
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> > 
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >  China reasserts claim on South China Sea islands, but says it's open
> >  to talks with Vietnam
> >
> > AP
> > Posted: 2008-01-24 06:51:34
> > BEIJING (AP) - China reasserted its claim of ownership over disputed
> > islands in the South China Sea on Thursday, but said it willing to
> > negotiate territorial disputes with Vietnam.
> >
> > Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu's statement follows meetings
> > Wednesday at which the sides announced a consensus to "properly handle
> > their dispute over the South China Sea," but gave few details.
> >
> > "We posses indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands
> > and the adjoining waters," Jiang said at a regularly scheduled news
> > conference.
> >
> > "We have exchanged views with Vietnam on many occasions and agreed to
> > solve these disputes through negotiations and safeguard peace and
> > stability in the South China Sea as well as in China-Vietnam
> > relations," she said.
> >
> > The two countries' competing claims to two island groups, the Paracels
> > and Spratlys, have in the past led to military confrontation. Hanoi in
> > November protested Chinese military exercises in the Paracels, calling
> > them a violation of Vietnamese sovereignty.
> >
> > The dispute over the Paracels dates back decades, while the Spratlys
> > are also claimed by several other neighboring countries.
> >
> > Wednesday's talks were co-chaired by Chinese State Councilor Tang
> > Jiaxuan, a senior foreign policy adviser, and Vietnamese Foreign
> > Minister Pham Gia Khiem.
> >
> > Also Thursday, Chinese Defense Minister Cao Gangchuan met with Nguyen
> > Huy Hieu, Vietnamese deputy minister of defense, with both "vowing to
> > deepen ties between the two countries and the two armed forces,"
> > according to China's official Xinhua News Agency.
> >
> > 
> > Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The information contained in the
> > AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise
> > distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated
> > Press. Active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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