[Vnbiz] Wife teaches hubby fiery lesson = A 'flaming hot' issue in Vietnam?
huong luong
huongluongdc at yahoo.com
Mon Apr 14 14:09:02 PDT 2008
Anh Shane,
After reading your story, first I do feel sorry for your friend as a person, especially as a woman myself. But her story is not unique in Vietnam or worldwide. both her father's reaction and the "amorous" guy is not uncommon in Vietnam. The father cried so hard because he definitely felt losing face, humiliated, heartbroken (on vietnamese traditional standard) and probably for his daughter as well (I give him the benefit of doubt b/c his love for her); and the guy of course has to deny for his current status and family. Even in the U.S, many men denied unwanted pregnancy until DNA test or whatever it takes to prove the baby is his.
For the commit suicide part, it depends on individual. American women don't think that way. Many Vietnamese women still behave that way because she is not confident or strong enough to take her own responsibility of her action/decision. But I believe with her nature of a happy/playful funny...person, she will be able to overcome it...being a single mom is ok/ or more acceptable today in Vietnam...she just needs a good advice and genuine compassion/ financial help for the baby.
I don't mean to assume all men are this way. But I do know girls are upset when their BFs or lovers deny their babies at first with this kind of question "are you sure it's mine?". Why do men react that way? for moral or money values, especially in the U.S money is a big factor when it comes to a child born out of wedlock.
In VN, there's no law to protect women and unwanted child...thus men will continue acting irresponsibly and selfishly. I have seen many divorced couple, the fathers just took off with his new life, and left children with their mothers without any child supports or whatsoever..even it is stated by court orders...laws is one thing, but law enforcement on family issues is a different matter in Vietnamese society. How sad it is for women and children in general.
Just my two cents.
Huong
Shane Wall <shane.wall at translingualexpress.com> wrote: [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
Thank you Tuy Phuong,
Your stories are very illuminating for me as I continue on my long
'journey of discovery'.
I first took this issue "to heart" and started trying to do something
about it when this happened. This is X's story.
A bright, intelligent, lovely and effervescent young (21 y.o.) lady,
she went to school until grade 7. Her parents have even less education.
They are itinerant farm laborers with seven children.
After leaving school, X joined her parents to work as an itinerant
farm laborer. She did that for about five years, all the while maturing
into a beautiful young woman. Not even 16 yet, she began receiving
"amorous attention" from an older married man with children from the
village. At first she totally rejected his advances out of fear [of the
unknown, i.e. sex/sexuality] and her father's old-fashioned traditional
values. She took an opportunity to go to Saigon and work in a coffee
shop run by a woman from the same village. That is where my wife and I
met her.
She was a great hostess! Quick-witted, with mischevious sense of
humor. Her and I would playfully argue over which of us spoke better
Vietnamese, her or I. She and my wife also became friends.
She worked here in Saigon for several years, dutifully sending home
clothes, money, household things to help her family. She worked hard.
Life was good. Not great, but the work was simple and easy, certainly
less difficult than farm work, and she had the chance to begin to see
herself as an attractive young woman. She was always a favorite of the
(male) customers for her quick wit and "playfulness". But as every
"cloud has a silver lining", so do "good times hide a darker future".
The "amorous" man from the village tracked her down ... even years later
... and enticed her back to the village [she wouldn't tell me what he
offered/promised her]. She went back to the village to pick peanuts and ???
She came to Saigon a couple of times after that and even came to
visit us at home. After that I lost contact with her, but my wife still
kept in loose contact. About 2 years ago my wife gave me an "update":
She was pregnant to the "amorous" guy; didn't know she was pregnant,
just vomiting and generally feeling "strange" and "unwell"; went to
hospital; discovered she was pregnant; returned from hospital;
confronted the "amorous" guy, who rejected her and they unborn child;
not being strong enough to cope with her father or the small-minded
attitudes of the villagers ... SHE KILLED HERSELF AND THE BABY WITH HER!
I was so angry that I went to that village the very next day and
confronted both the father and the "amorous" guy with just one question:
"Are your needs and values SO important to you that a beautiful young
girl must kill herself and her unborn child, your child/grandchild?".
The "amorous" guy denied even knowing her, which is impossible in a
village of that size. The father just broke down and cried ... and cried
... and cried ... and cried. It was obvious that he had recognized
himself and his attitude as one of the contributing factors. Now he is
one of my staunchest and strongest supporters in "empowering girls".
Slowly but surely, the "amorous" guy is steadily losing his status in
the village! My message was: 'Money does not equal morals! If it is
wrong, it is wrong - no matter how much money you have!"
I'm no social anthropologist, but thanks to bro Phong Phong's
'teaching', I can wonder if this phenomena may have come from the
ancient Chinese practice of mandarins and concubines, or is there
something uniquely Vietnamese in this which I am yet to discover?
Shane
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Shane Wall
Managing Director
Trans Lingual Express
188/16 Nguyen Thuong Hien St,
P.1, Q. Go Vap, HCMC,
Vietnam
Mail: shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
Web: www.translingualexpress.com
Ph: +84 (8) 588 1701
Mbl: +84 (090) 9484 753 (English)
Mbl: +84 (090) 7885 375 (Vietnamese)
Tea (Tuy-Phuong) LeTran wrote:
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hi anh Shane, Phong, and CACC,
>
> Three cheers for anh Shane (chi Shane is a very lucky lady).
> This victim of spousal betrayal also have another supporter here too.
>
> This is an issue forever have been very close to my heart for I
> believed this is a serious social problem in VN have been ignore by
> the whole society for generations. I do not know the exact ratio of
> the responsible parallel polygamy (the ones who do take care of their
> other women and the children they help to created) in compare to
> the irresponsible parallel polygamy (the ones who abandoned their
> other women and the children they help to created) but I would like to
> talk to you about a numbers of cases I had witnessed through out my
> life time and my personal experiences.
>
> Anh Shane oi, the "girlfriend culture" that you see to day in VN have
> been rooted in the Vietnamese society as long as I can remember. In
> my maternal grandfather rural village, Bi`nh Luo^ng -Do^ng, Go`
> Co^ng, where I spend most of my summer vacations during my high school
> years, there were a numbers of well to do married men having extra
> marital affairs with younger neighbor females. 7 of them to be exact.
>
> These men never had any intention of leaving their wives, they just
> wanted to have fun with the young girls only. All of them seems to
> respect their wives to the point of being afraid and often they had to
> sneak around to go see their girl friends. One of these men (my
> grandfather next door neighbor) asked me to be his messenger to
> deliver his message to his young girl friend to meet him at night at a
> certain place in the village and in return he would give me money.
> Naturally I had to refused for fear my grandfather would give me
> a good spanking. I was 9 years old.
>
> One sunny day not long after, another the girl was confronting her
> married boyfriend on what to do about the baby she was conceived with
> him on the street in front of my grandfather's rice field. She told
> my grandfather she became his girl believing, since he was well to
> do, she'll benefit from his wealth. Of course the man refused to
> acknowledged the baby was his and he returned to his wife continued to
> live his good life unharmed. When my grandfather asked her why did
> she want to submit herself to an unworthy man, she told my
> grandfather the reasons was, he was a wealthy man and she was much
> younger than his wife.
>
> Being pregnant without being married, this girl was abandoned by her
> family and most of the people in the village, except my grandfather
> and a few other families. She gave birth to a baby boy and struggling
> to raised her boy the best way she could. But being isolated, poor
> education and jobless, she couldn't do much and her boy grew up to be
> a serious trouble maker not only for himself but for many other
> people.
>
> Some other girls had to leave the village for good because of the
> humiliation caused by the men's wives, but the men continued to live
> their good lives with their wives and families afterward, unharmed.
>
> My father, while married to my mother, he has a girlfriend who lived
> next door and who was 16 years younger than him. Before my father,
> this woman already had 2 children with 2 different men in the
> village. He abandoned my mother at the age of 32 and my sister and I
> at the age of 8 and 6. Life after my father was a real struggle for
> the 3 of us, but my mother, never remarry, managed to put foods on the
> table for me and my sister, helped us to be well educated, enough
> clothes to keep warm, and taught us to live our lives not ever to
> cause harm and missery to other human beings as long as we live. My
> father was unharmed for his action.
>
> My first cousin, her husband had several extra marital affairs with
> much younger women and have kids. But he always returned to my cousin
> and abandoned the others. He was unharmed for his action. To these
> day, we do not know how the other children are doing.
>
> My third generation of cousin, she also is a victim of
> irresponsible parallel polygamy. Her husband gave her 4 children
> and leave them unattended. 1 boy and 3 girls. The mother don't know
> how to support her kids. The children don't have enough foods on the
> table and the chance to go to school. The oldest boy became a trouble
> maker in the village. The second girl dropped out of grade school to
> waited table for drunken abusive men to help her mother to buy
> foods. The father still continued to conquered other women for his
> pleasure still unharmed. When I found out I had the boy and his
> sister learning a trade skill for themselves so that they can be
> productive and the other 2 younger kids attending regular school as
> the way it should be.
>
> My mother's neighbor, another victim of irresponsible parallel
> polygamy. 3 children in the family. The father still wouldn't leave
> the mother. The girlfriend had kid. No support of any kind.
>
> I think it about time Viet Nam should have some kinds of alimony and
> child support policies to govern these irresponsible men. The devoted
> wife should be reward for her devotion and investing a number of years
> of her life in the marriage. The innocent children didn't ask to be
> here in the first place. It is the adults who created them, thus the
> adults should be make to take full responsibility to make sure that
> the children are safe and well until they become adults and able to
> care for themselves.
>
> I was fortunate enough to have a totally devoted mother and
> grandfather who were the reasons for my very existence today. But
> there are too many unfortunate innocent children who are suffering
> from being abandoned and neglected. It is absolutely cruel,
> thoughtless, selfish, inhumane for the adults only concern for
> themselves but not the innocent children.
>
> Since a majority of infidelity cases most often involved greed, sex,
> fame, and money, it is about time our society should stand up for
> morality sake to do something about these irresponsible
> husband/wife/father/mother/
> girlfriend/minor wife, so that our younger generations can see the
> light of day.
>
> Phong oi, I believe the monogamy concept was well received by the
> modern Vietnamese women/families ever since it being introduced since
> post-colonial period. Our society have been benefit much
> better with the concept of one happy moral loving family, meaning
> happy moral loving productive devoted parent, in turn, they'll produce
> happy moral loving productive devoted children, therefore, happy moral
> loving productive citizens for the society. I know you are a devoted
> husband and father. You also must see these benefits :-) .
> Here are some real cases to support my proposal. A good friend of our
> family for over 20 years, who lived in the state of Maryland, who is a
> scientist and worked for Nasa. He was married and have 5 children
> when he left VN in 1975. He and his wife endured a 10 years
> separation before they were reunited in 1986. He studied and worked
> and waited for his wife and his children. There were a few women
> tried to compete for him during this period, but he always told them
> he was flatter but he's married and he didn't want to dishonor his
> wife and his children. At present time, there are 4 generations in
> his family still living together happily with such devotion, and
> love from his mother to his grandchildren. All of his 5 children are
> happily married and all of them lived a very productive life.
>
> Another friend is a who lived in Springfield, VA and retired from a
> jewelry business. You just couldn't see a better loving, loyal
> and devoted couple. They are happily married for over 34 years. They
> had 4 children and 4 grandchildren. Their children also are happily
> married to loyal, loving, devoted spouses.
>
> Another friend who live in Tampa, Florida, who had six children and 15
> grandchildren and who is a royal blood line of the Nguyen's dynasty.
> They are totally loyal and devoted to one another from the first day
> of their marriage. Six of their children are happily married and they
> are totally loyal and devoted to their spouses. Every weekend they
> get together at their parent's home to spend time with one another.
>
> My parent in law, they happily married and their loyal, devotion for
> one another is unmatched. They had 9 kids together, 10 grand kids,
> and 2 great grand kids. I just visited my father in law tonight and
> he proudly showed me a necklace with a heart pendant (he bought) he
> wore on his neck containing my mother in law and his pictures on both
> sides of the heart pendant.
>
> My sisters in law and my brothers in law, everyone of them devoted
> themselves to their spouses and children with such love only compare
> to their parent.
>
> My maternal grandfather, being in love with my grandmother in an era
> that forbidden them to set eyes on one another by families,
> friends, and neighbor. At the time my grandmother was a widower with
> 7 kids and she was 10 years older than my grandfather. On the other
> hand, my grandfather were single, never been marry and he came from a
> reputable family. They overcome all obstacles and get married by
> themselves despite everybody against them. My mother was born with
> her twin sister out of that love. My grandmother died of a certain
> illness when my mother was only 10 years old. My grandfather never
> remarry, he stay single to raised my other with such love, loyal and
> devotion on his part. He burried my grandmother next to the house
> they lived in and every single day he took my mother visited my
> grandmother's grave and made his offering with fruits and nhang.
>
> My mother, when my father left her for the other women at 32 years of
> age. She stay single and raised my sister and I with such love,
> loyal and devotion she learned from my grandfather. She installed in
> me the same love, loyal and devotion that my husband have been
> benefited thru out our over 33 years of marriage, and my children from
> the first day they were born.
>
> My daughters, I must be the luckiest mother on this planet. Both of
> my daughters are as loving, generous, loyal and devoted not only their
> own families but also to their parent as well.
>
> My 2 years old grandson, Gavin. He has such love and
> compassion and is so affectionate at such a young age. He always gave
> hugs and kisses with such compassion to the people he saw on a daily
> basic.
>
> It is 7:14 AM my time already. I have to go pick up my grandson now
> for today is the day I get to keep him.
>
> I sincerely hope our children will have a better future if we keep
> talking about this.
>
> Please be well and be safe everyone!
>
> TP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Shane Wall
>
> > wrote:
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
> Go Girl, Go! You have a supporter here!
>
> I am frankly disgusted by this "girlfriend" culture that I see
> displayed
> around me by married men in most of Southeast Asia (and I lived in or
> had extended visits in all of the bar Cambodia and Burma), and here in
> Vietnam too ... with all the laudable cultural virtues that people
> love
> to cling to!
>
> What parents would allow their sons or daughters to participate in
> such
> activities in such an outwardly moralistic society as Vietnamese
> people
> love to present to the world?
>
> It is "great fun" to point out problems in this area when it
> happens in
> Cambodia, but what will you say about your "friend" or "friend of a
> friend" who is doing exactly the same? NOTHING!!!
>
> Of course this posting will not be published because in Vnbiz
> because it
> might be too truthfully close to the lives of 'important' people! Can
> money buy morals? It would seem that it can!!!.
>
> Shane
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. Shane Wall
> Managing Director
>
> Trans Lingual Express
> 188/16 Nguyen Thuong Hien St,
> P.1, Q. Go Vap, HCMC,
> Vietnam
>
> Mail: shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
>
> Web: www.translingualexpress.com
>
> Ph: +84 (8) 588 1701
>
> Mbl: +84 (090) 9484 753 (English)
> Mbl: +84 (090) 7885 375 (Vietnamese)
>
>
>
> Tai Phan wrote:
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Wife teaches hubby fiery lesson
> > 01/04/2008 16:01 - (SA)
> >
> >
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> >#
> >
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> >#
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
> > Phnom Penh - A Cambodian man who took his lover for a spin in
> his new
> > car was caught out when he pulled into his driveway only to be
> > confronted by his wife brandishing petrol, which she proceeded
> to pour
> > over the vehicle and ignite, police said on Tuesday.
> >
> > Seing Sokny, 25, was alerted to her husband's clandestine drive with
> > his lover in the northern tourist town of Siem Reap by her
> girlfriends
> > and decided to hit him where it hurt most, according to Svay Dangkum
> > district police official Chheng Sophea.
> >
> > "On Sunday, Paing Vibol came home after dropping the girl off and
> > Sokny just walked up, poured a bottle of petrol over the bonnet and
> > lit it up," Sophea said by telephone.
> >
> > Vibol, 39, had purchased the Toyota Corolla just four days
> earlier for
> > around $5 000.
> >
> > Sophea said the husband took one look at his car in flames and fled
> > the scene. He is now believed to be in hiding in Phnom Penh,
> more than
> > 300km away, Sophea said. - Sapa-dpa
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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>
> --
> Tea (Tuy-Phuong) LeTran
>
> Form is not different from Void, Void is not different from Form
> Form is Void, Void is Form
> (The Great-Wisdom-Beyond-Wisdom Heart Sutra)
>
> Sa('c ba^'t di. Kho^ng, Kho^ng ba^'t di. Sa('c
> Sa('c tu+'c thi. Kho^ng, Kho^ng tu+'c thi. Sa('c
> ( Ba't Nha~ Ta^m Kinh )
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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