[Vnbiz] Fatherland Front helps fight inflation
Craig Stevenson
cstevenson2000 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 7 00:50:43 PDT 2008
Brookings Paper below, for a start:
http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2003/08china_ye.aspx
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:25 AM, Craig Stevenson <cstevenson2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi All and Thanh An:
>
> I will look for publicly available documents on the web, on academic
> databases, and try to wade through all of the documents saved on my computer
> (at some point in the future). I believe recent documentaries on discovery
> reviewed the issue; re: the guy who was burned in a fire and used the
> compensation he received to set up a CSO serving rural migrants in his city
> who are being abused working in factories (those owned by Taiwanese and HK
> Chinese, I believe it is Guangdong; he was also knived during filming of the
> documentary, so no, all is not rosy in China). It might be that my use of
> mitigate is an overly strong word (yet I did qualify with the word *many*of the problems where the benefits of such a society should not be denied
> but by those few with the most to lose in terms of absolute control of
> small locales; minor fiefdoms).
>
> Yet, if you take my high estimate of 10,000 for VN, and your low estimate
> of 300,000 for China, than that would be a factor of 30 to 1, if we then
> compare populations of VN and China we can easily see that at VN high
> estimate and Chinese low estimate that CSOs are taking off more on the
> ground in China than in Vietnam (using pop figures of 85 million and 1.3
> billion, China's government estimates, or 1.6 billion, external observer
> estimates).
>
> That more needs to be done, surprises me little considering the unstable
> projectory of the Chinese economy and choices that prolong, if not elongate,
> eventual corrections there. My intent was only to point out that, even,
> China seems more accepting of the need for a healthy Civil Society and that
> at least anecdotal evidence points to that "fact".
>
> search
>
> CIDA CSO and Extranet
>
> When I can I will try to locate documents useful for the board. Don't
> expect this week, but I will locate the thread and revive at a later date as
> I intend to do with the Vietnam 2020 thread, not sure when. Otherwise Thanh
> An, if I see something in my searching I will send directly to you and you
> can post as you like.
>
> Craig
> On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Pham Thi Thanh An <thanhan2505 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> >
> > Dear A. Craig, A. Hoanh and CACC,
> >
> >
> >
> > In the search of proof for A.Craig's statement of "China is able to
> > mitigate much of the worst of its growing pains from the fairly rapid
> > development of Civil Society that has progressed over the last decade or
> > so", I have found the following 2 documents (attached for your information).
> > A. Craig, I would assume that you know additional literature documenting the
> > CSOs growth in China based on that statement. If that's the case, please
> > kindly share with us. Many thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > The CSIS report, which I strongly recommends, seems an interesting and
> > informative report on the role and the development of Chinese CSOs in the
> > health sector, as well as opportunities and challenges facing them which I
> > believe have a lot of relevance to the Vietnamese context given the broad
> > similarities of historical and institutional environments for CSO operations
> > across the two countries.
> >
> >
> >
> > I wonder if any of you know of any similar studies for the case of
> > Vietnamese CSOs in a particular sector, particularly education, health or
> > the very ARD sector that is under discussion in vnbiz. Analytical studies of
> > this type would be of great value in terms of both providing a better
> > understanding of the real extent of challenges/opportunities wrapping local
> > CSOs and informing an action-oriented agenda.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding future prospects for CSOs growth in China, here are the two
> > excerpts from the report as 2 different forecasting scenarios:
> >
> >
> >
> > The gloomier version:
> >
> >
> >
> > "Continuing ambiguous political and societal standing for CSOs. Chinese
> > authorities have not as yet presented a strategic and realistic vision for
> > the role of the emergent civil society sector in China for the years ahead.
> > Beijing authorities may acknowledge the utility of civil society, but they
> > are still grappling with a deeper understanding of how it can play a
> > constructive and stabilizing role in achieving much-sought scientific
> > development and a harmonious society. The government has been unable to
> > settle on rules that will differentiate acceptable from unacceptable groups.
> > The government understands that a functioning civil society sector has
> > tremendous potential in keeping economic, social, and environmental
> > development in balance—particularly when CSOs can fill gaps in government
> > services and outreach to interest groups. But overall, Chinese CSOs remain
> > in an ambiguous, stalled situation...... The Chinese leadership exhibits
> > a historic fear that external forces work from within to undermine Chinese
> > stability and the legitimacy of the political system. Owing to this
> > pervasive distrust at both the central and local level, Chinese authorities
> > impose a number of registration barriers on CSOs, including the requirement
> > of a sponsoring government agency, adequate funding, bank accounts, an
> > acceptable mission statement, and limited geographic reach to ensure a
> > tighter political leash. Moreover, at local levels, civil society
> > organizations are sometimes viewed as entities that compete intrinsically
> > for resources and legitimacy with local governing structures that are often
> > the most important employers. Since the advent of Communist China in 1949,
> > the country's public institutions have played the predominant role in the
> > provision of public goods—in education, culture, health, poverty
> > alleviation, and environmental protection. It is still seen as the principal
> > and sometimes the only trusted provider of relevant public services in those
> > areas. While this perspective is changing as China continues to retrench
> > public services and embrace the market, it will nevertheless persist and
> > hold back the development of the civil society sector."
> >
> >
> >
> > The brighter version:
> >
> >
> >
> > "China's growing reputational concerns could potentially contribute to a
> > reassessment of its internal approaches to matters such as health. There is
> > already high sensitivity to the scrutiny China is beginning to experience in
> > the lead up to the summer 2008 Beijing Olympics. China's leaders understand
> > that a part of its international image and prestige will be judged by how it
> > handles domestic challenges including environmental quality, HIV/AIDS,
> > tuberculosis, and avian influenza. China is also expected to further
> > increase its donor role in the coming years, especially in Africa and Asia.
> > In stepping up to these growing responsibilities, China is developing
> > approaches that take greater account of how CSOs can play a constructive
> > role. While still at an early stage, there is an emerging foundation to
> > support greater civil society involvement in the health sector in China,
> > especially in the role of service providers as opposed to advocacy—on the
> > supply side rather than the demand side of health care issues.
> >
> >
> >
> > The National People's Congress has passed new laws to govern CSOs and
> > foundations; new regulations for the registration and management of
> > foundations were approved and came into force in 2004. They are primarily
> > aimed at Chinese organizations; however, they also address international
> > organizations and are a promising step in establishing a regulatory
> > framework for civil organizations. In addition, in February 2006 some
> > government agencies at the central level opened up the bidding process for
> > poverty alleviation grants to civil society organizations............. While
> > political restraints, lack of funding, and capacity-building gaps will
> > continue to restrain the activity of health-related CSOs in China, a range
> > of civil society actors carry forward a remarkable range of work. Chinese
> > universities, esteemed institutions, have a special opportunity to encourage
> > civil society development, including in the health sphere. They are likely
> > to increase their role as brokers and facilitators between the government
> > and grassroots organizations. They are often seen as safer and more
> > effective partners by both Chinese and foreign public and private donor
> > agencies...."
> >
> >
> >
> > Enjoy the reading, and best regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanh An
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* vnbiz-bounces at mail.saigon.com [mailto:
> > vnbiz-bounces at mail.saigon.com] *On Behalf Of *Craig Stevenson
> > *Sent:* 05 April 2008 19:33
> > *To:* vnbiz at vietlinks.net
> > *Subject:* Re: [Vnbiz] Fatherland Front helps fight inflation
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hoanh, I believe your calls for strengthening Civil Society to be
> > entirely correct. A healthy and functioning Civil Society enables the
> > people to withstand the worst that our/their environments bring to
> > us/them. China is able to mitigate much of the worst of its growing pains
> > from the fairly rapid development of Civil Society that has progressed over
> > the last decade or so. The Chinese people, today, are more able to solve
> > more of the local problems that can bog down government officials who often
> > have too busy to solve all of the problems, all of the time.
> >
> >
> >
> > Civil Society is a support to government in that it enables the energy
> > of local people to tackle local problems and as they act as the eyes and
> > ears of the people at the ground level. To enable, even encourage, people
> > to support people, which can be wildly within our selfish self-interest, is
> > an appropriate policy response for governments who are seeking to take
> > advantage of all that globalization has to offer. People are more nimble,
> > for simple need of food on the dinner table, to alter direction, and respond
> > to rapid local developments, than large unwieldy institutions such as
> > bureaucracies. Where government is skilled at seeing the big picture, at
> > designing the grand strategies, and identifying important initiatives the
> > people who do the heavy lifting are very much more aware of the problems
> > they faced yesterday, the problems they face today, and the trends of
> > problems they will face tomorrow (otherwise people would have become extinct
> > a very long time ago). To facilitate the change that Vietnam envisages
> > requires the formalization of roles, responsibilities, and frameworks within
> > which the people can more fully contribute to the devleopment of the
> > nation. In some large measure it can be seen as strengthening, and
> > diversifying, the service sector of the economy. Civil Society is a rather
> > large, and to some perhaps even divisive concept, but formalizing the ways
> > by which Agricultural Scientists, for example, can contribute to the
> > development of the Agricultural sector of the economy is plain for all to
> > see (especially now with food prices, how long will we wait, what would have
> > been the situation had we acted earlier).
> >
> >
> >
> > Enabling one farming community to share its best practices easily with
> > others is plain to see and requires definition and formalization of roles
> > and responsibilities for this to happen. Concerned citizens, perhaps the
> > brother of one who has died from some horrible disease, need to have the
> > ability to exercise their passion and desire to tackle the disease which
> > took his brother, and this requires the formalization of roles and
> > responsibilities under law.
> >
> >
> >
> > Until nations understand the importance of liberating the passion and
> > energy of their people to solve the problems that face nations they limit
> > the speed at which problems can be corrected.
> >
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Shane Wall <
> > shane.wall at translingualexpress.com> wrote:
> >
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> > Dear anh Hoanh,
> >
> > I totally agree with you: "We need to find way to encourage the growth
> > of civil society, ...". Where I might differ is perhaps in the
> > implementation.
> >
> > To me, I would suggest a "young-up" approach! We borrow the Earth from
> > our children, so why should we not ask them what kind of Earth they
> > would like us to hand over to them? As a person in 'power' of any
> > government, I would ask young people what THEY want from our world! It
> > could serve the future of any country well to listen to those we
> > "borrow" it from: our young people!
> >
> > I am not sure that I understand what you mean about switching to
> > "survival mode of thinking--do or die, unite to win)" in a war-time
> > situation. That might be so at the political level, but as you may
> > remember, when you are looking at the 'wrong' end of a gun, the
> > "survival mode" is totally selfish. And personal!
> >
> > Could it be that, in your words, "Every government (Chinese, French, and
> > then our own Vietnamese governments) are so afraid that citizens may go
> > off on themselves and do things the governments do not want ..." because
> > that would mean the Government is doing things which the people do not
> > agree with? You and I both know where /that/ might lead!
> >
> > It is a very interesting topic. From what I know, exhortations like this
> > one from the FF mean nothing to the general population.
> >
> >
> > Shane
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Mr. Shane Wall
> > Managing Director
> >
> > Trans Lingual Express
> > 188/16 Nguyen Thuong Hien St,
> > P.1, Q. Go Vap, HCMC,
> > Vietnam
> >
> > Mail: shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
> > Web: www.translingualexpress.com
> >
> > Ph: +84 (8) 588 1701
> >
> > Mbl: +84 (090) 9484 753 (English)
> > Mbl: +84 (090) 7885 375 (Vietnamese)
> >
> >
> >
> > Tran Dinh Hoanh wrote:
> > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> >
> > > Dear anh Shane,
> > >
> > > While family responsibility is strong, social responsibility is not a
> > > very strong Vietnamese trait (except when the country is at war. Then
> > > we switch to the survival mode of thinking--do or die, unite to win).
> > > The weakness in our social responsibility is something that any
> > > leader, any government will have to work on seriously (if she/it wants
> > > to be a good leader). I imagine throughout our history ALL government
> > > have worked against building up this social responsibility. Citizen's
> > > social responsibility means that the citizens by themselves feel
> > > responsible for the society's good so they automatically do something
> > > by themselves to help the society.
> > >
> > > But do governments throughout our history want citizens to do that?
> > > Of course, not. Every government (Chinese, French, and then our own
> > > Vietnamese governments) are so afraid that citizens may go off on
> > > themselves and do things the governments do not want (like an
> > > organized complaint about government's conduct), so as soon as a group
> > > of citizens gather to do something, the government either prohibits
> > > it, discourage it, or find a way to run it. Do you ever see a group
> > > of children trying to build a sandcastle or a wooden chair
> > > themselves? Have you every jumped in and try to take over the project
> > > and "teach" the children how to build? Try that and you will see how
> > > many children are still around after 10 minutes.
> > >
> > > The best way to ruin people's inspiration and motivation is trying to
> > > control and "manage" their work. I can understand that the Chinese
> > > and the French wanted to do that when they are our rulers. But when a
> > > Vietnamese government does that it annoys me greatly. It means that
> > > we act like abused children. Abused children grow up to be abusive
> > > parents. We are abused by foreign bosses and grow us to be abusive
> > > bosses ourselves.
> > >
> > > We need to find way to encourage the growth of civil society, to
> > > encourage our citizens to come up on the streets and start doing
> > > productive things for society themselves, and not hinder them with all
> > > kinds of rules and regulations and restrictions. And this issue of
> > > social responsibility and civil society has been the central point of
> > > our call in this forum for years and years. I said "central point"
> > > because citizen engagement is the central strategy to get the entire
> > > nation going strongly.
> > >
> > > Going back to this case, the government is trying to get the citizens
> > > to engage, that is a very good point. As we see all the negative
> > > points, we must also recognize every positive move as it happens. It
> > > is much better to have a call for unity to solve a problem than not
> > > saying anything at all.
> > >
> > > Have a great day, anh Shane and all.
> > >
> > > Hoanh
> > >
> > > ___________________--
> > >
> > > 2008/4/5 Shane Wall <shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
> > > <mailto:shane.wall at translingualexpress.com>>:
> >
> > >
> > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > >
> > > Dear anh Hoanh,
> > > You ask: "How could we not be strong if our nation works like
> > that?"
> > > The simple fact is that Vietnam definitely DOES NOT work like this
> > "on
> > > the ground".
> > >
> > > A small but significant amount of profiteering is happening
> > already.
> > > From what I see, it is growing both in its spread across
> > different
> > > areas of the economy and in the "markups" that are being added. On
> > the
> > > wind I can sniff the re-emergence of the "every person for
> > themselves"
> > > attitude which we all know has plagued our country at different
> > > times in
> > > the past.
> > >
> > > This profiteering does not surprise me, nor even make me angry.
> > Like
> > > countries, most people the world over will normally act in their
> > own
> > > self-interest. That is a natural human instinct ... you stay alive
> > > longer if you protect yourself than if you protect others and
> > leave
> > > yourself vulnerable. The human species is innately selfish when it
> > > comes
> > > to self-preservation.
> > >
> > > Perhaps the most interesting thing about this is the management
> > > style: release an exhortation to the public for them to do this,
> > > that or
> > > the other, and then sit back in self-satisfaction that we have
> > > done our
> > > job ... when the people overwhelmingly ignore these things anyway!
> > I
> > > shudder to think of how many millions of dollars are wasted on the
> > > slogan-banners we see draped across our streets right throughout
> > the
> > > country exhorting us to "Warmly welcome the ... whatever", just so
> > we
> > > can forget about them because they usually have no direct
> > relevance to
> > > our lives.
> > >
> > > Honestly, I sometimes wonder if the machinery of governance (at
> > all
> > > levels) and I are living in the same country! They seem to live in
> > > "Governmentland" while the rest of us live in Viet Nam!
> > >
> > > Shane
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Mr. Shane Wall
> > > Managing Director
> > >
> > > Trans Lingual Express
> > > 188/16 Nguyen Thuong Hien St,
> > > P.1, Q. Go Vap, HCMC,
> > > Vietnam
> > >
> > > Mail: shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
> >
> > > <mailto:shane.wall at translingualexpress.com>
> > > Web: www.translingualexpress.com <
> > http://www.translingualexpress.com>
> >
> > >
> > > Ph: +84 (8) 588 1701
> > >
> > > Mbl: +84 (090) 9484 753 (English)
> > > Mbl: +84 (090) 7885 375 (Vietnamese)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tran Dinh Hoanh wrote:
> > > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Dear CACC,
> > > >
> > > > The article below is about the Fatherland Front's call for all
> > > > citizens to "unite to conquer difficulties and reduce spending
> > to
> > > > fight inflation." This is obviously in support of the Prime
> > > > Minister's previous call for all citizens to reduce spending.
> > > >
> > > > I find this fascinating. This style of management truly brings
> > out
> > > > the strength of the nation--everyone in the country works
> > > together to
> > > > conquer a problem. For years discussing economic issues, I
> > > rarely see
> > > > a government anywhere in the world asking its citizens to work
> > on an
> > > > inflation problem. Mostly it is done as the exclusive work of
> > the
> > > > government, economists and the banks, like increasing/decreasing
> > > > interest rates or reducing/increasing government spending or
> > > > increasing of decreasing taxes. Citizens are not the problem
> > > solvers,
> > > > they are expected to react to the government actions only. That
> > is
> > > > typical cold economic thinking--human is an economic creature,
> > > he will
> > > > react in a certain way to an economic inducement. Induce him to
> > act
> > > > the way you want and you will have your wanted result.
> > > >
> > > > Here in Vietnam, the citizens are asked to be the central player
> > in
> > > > solving the problem. He is not simply induced by economic
> > measures,
> > > > but he is expected to actively change the economic situation
> > > himself.
> > > >
> > > > How could we not be strong if our nation works like that?
> > > >
> > > > Have a great day!
> > > >
> > > > Hoanh
> > > > ____________
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tha;) sC!u, 4/4/2008, 08:09 GMT+7
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ma:7t tra:-n kC*u ga;i toC n dC"n tia:?t kia;m, cha; ng la:!m
> > phC!t
> > > >
> > > > NgC y 3/4, DoC n cha;' ta;
> > ch a;&y ban Trung F0F!ng Ma:7t tra:-n ta; qua; c VN ra la;i
> > > > kC*u ga;i D a; ng bC o ca:# nF0a;c chung tay kha:/c pha;%c khC3
> > khD
> > ------------------------------
> > n, tha;1c hC nh
> > > tia:?t
> > > > kia;m D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > kia;m cha:? la:!m phC!t.
> > > > > Tha;' tF0a;ng kC*u ga;i toC n dC"n tia:?t gia:#m chi tiC*u
> > > > <http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Xa-hoi/2008/03/3BA00C71/>
> > > >
> > > > Trong thC4ng D ia;p ga;-i D a; ng bC o, DoC n cha;' ta;
> > ch nha:%n ma:!nh do tC!c
> > > D a;ng ca;'a
> > > > kinh ta:? tha:? gia;i vC nha;/ng ya:?u kC)m trong qua:#n lC=, D
> > ia;u hC nh kinh
> > > ta:? vD)
> > > > mC4 cC9ng va;i cC!c nguyC*n nhC"n na;i sinh D C# lC m cho na;n
> > kinh ta:? VN cC3
> > > > nha;/ng dia;n bia:?n ba:%t la;#i, la:!m phC!t tD
> > ------------------------------
> > ng cao. TC,nh hC,nh D C3 D C# a:#nh
> > > hF0a;ng
> > > > tiC*u ca;1c D a:?n phC!t tria;
> > ------------------------------
> > n sa:#n xua:%t vC D a;i sa; ng ca;'a cC!c ta:'ng la;p nhC"n
> > > > dC"n, nha:%t lC ngF0a;i nghC(o vC ngF0a;i lC m cC4ng D
> > ------------------------------
> > n lF0F!ng.
> > > >
> > > > CE)ng hC4m qua, ta:!i ha;i ngha;
> > DoC n cha;' ta;
> > ch a;&y ban Trung F0F!ng Ma:7t
> > > tra:-n ta;
> > > > qua; c VN la:'n tha;) 11, Tha;' tF0a;ng Nguya;n Ta:%n DE)ng D C#
> > thC4ng bC!o tC,nh hC,nh
> > > > kinh ta:? - xC# ha;i 3 thC!ng D a:'u nD
> > ------------------------------
> > m vC nha;/ng gia:#i phC!p F0u tiC*n D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > cha; ng
> > > > la:!m phC!t. Tha;' tF0a;ng D a; ngha;
> > Ma:7t tra:-n cC9ng va;i ChC-nh pha;' giC!m
> > > sC!t, kia;
> > ------------------------------
> > m
> > > > tra via;c tha;1c hia;n chC-nh sC!ch vC chi tiC*u ngC"n sC!ch, D
> > a:'u tF0 xC"y da;1ng
> > > > cF! ba:#n trong ta;+ng ngC nh, ta;+ng D a;
> > a phF0F!ng.
> > > >
> > > > Da;
> > ------------------------------
> > kia;m cha:? la:!m phC!t, DoC n cha;' ta;
> > ch D C# hia:?n ka:? cho ChC-nh pha;' ma;t sa;
> > > > gia:#i phC!p, nhF0 D a:#m ba:#o tC-nh nha:%t quC!n trong cha; D
> > a:!o ta;+ cC!c gia:#i phC!p
> > > > tC,nh tha:? D a:?n cC!c gia:#i phC!p cF! ba:#n, D a:7c bia;t
> > ca:'n sia:?t cha:7t ka;7
> > > lua:-t hC nh
> > > > chC-nh ta;+ trC*n xua; ng dF0a;i. Ba;i D C"y lC cF! ha;i ta; t
> > D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > tha;1c hia;n ca:#i
> > > cC!ch
> > > > hC nh chC-nh, tinh gia:#m ga;n nha:9 ba; mC!y hC nh chC-nh.
> > > >
> > > > (Theo /TTXVN/)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tran Dinh Hoanh, Esq., LLB, JD
> > > > Washington DC
> > > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tran Dinh Hoanh, Esq., LLB, JD
> > > Washington DC
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
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