[Vnbiz] Nha Trang Bay

[Craig Stevenson]

Dear CACC,

Dyung Le, I really can't agree with your perspective more (in some
respects).

To me hawkers are part of the experience.  Some of my best friends in the
places I have lived and traveled have been these hawkers. They, are the salt
of the earth, and should be much admired for doing what it takes to make a
living with the lot that they have been given.  As to some making only
15,000 a day, that would be surprising if that low.  Some I knew made well
more than that.  But I digress, I guess the point is that for those who are
real tourists, they want the experience without being pestered.  They
haven't learned how to deal with hawkers as it may be impolite to ignore a
person who is talking to them.  Hawkers work you until they understand who
you are, whether you know how to deal with them, whether you will hold your
ground or give just to stop them and have them move on their way.

As to hawkers, any person who has spent time traveling in developing nations
should be aware of hawkers.  Hawkers won't drive away the types of
individuals who travel to developing nations.  Hawkers are part of the
process, part of the experience, par for the course. Of course, for the
cruise ship crowd, hawkers need to be severly restrained.  Cruise Ship
tourists are catered to, want relaxation, don't want to see anything, but
something pretty.  THey are not here to see countries and peoples, to taste
the food and notice the cultural nuances, they are spectators in luxury
boxes at a sporting event.  So on the streets of Hanoi or HCMC hawkers are
fine, on the beaches that cruise ships let passengers off on for a three
hour swim and sun they should be limited.

When in a country I always notice how locals deal with street-sellers and
then try to respond more politely with equal firmness.  Tourists venturing
into cities like HCMC need to learn how to deal with it or they should just
go on a cruise.

On tourist and tourist sites I believe Vietnam has many challenges.  The
country is long and narrow. The distances between sites can be far. Cities
like HCMC are often intimidating to a tourist.  It is big, busy, filled with
commerce, buzzing.  There are few large parks, limited greenery, and lotsa
concrete and asphalt.  Exciting for youthful travelers, less exciting for
the elderly or older toursists.  It would seem wise to effectively develop
tourist venues in pockets.  Pockets of short distances.  Sites that make the
best use of local flora, local flavors, local culture, music and
dance.  Effectively creating sites close in proximity to each other, that
capture things different than can be seen elsewhere in a relaxing
environment might work to capture and encourage people to return.

Just my two cents,

Craig



On 5/30/07, Dyung Le <dyungle at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>
> Dear CCCA,
>
> I don't think aggressive hawking is a characteristics only of BN. I
> remember
> being in Puerto Rico, visiting some historial sites. The layout was a
> narrow
> pathways in between 2 rows of stalls. The hawking was extremely
> aggressive,
> quasi intimidating. It left quite a bad taste in my mouth regarding my
> experience in Puerto Rico.
>
> Re the example given, I think people will hawk what they have to hawk. If
> they have sunglass, they'll try to sell sun glass. They don't have other
> stuff to sell so what can they do.
>
> I do remember visiting some ancient temples in China. When we arrived the
> sky was clear. When we left, it was raining. I was amazed that the bus
> stop
> litterally is sprouting with vendors of umbrella and raincoat. Those guys
> made a killing!
>
> I do aggree some tourism planning is needed. But I'm not sure how.
> Sometimes
> I do get bothered by agressive hawking, but then I realized that lots of
> these people make only 15,000 dong a day working 12-14 hours. So I stopped
> feeling so annoyed.
>
> Dyung Le
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Hong-Phong_Pho at ita.doc.gov
> Reply-To: vnbiz at vietlinks.net
> To: vnbiz at vietlinks.net
> CC: vnbiz at vietlinks.net, vnbiz-bounces at mail.saigon.com
> Subject: Re: [Vnbiz] Nha Trang Bay
> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:57:40 -0400
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>
>
> Hi Shane,
> As it is with international trade -- which tourism is a part where the
> customers actually come to you -- Vietnam is on a learning curve without
> much appropriate help from the authorities.  In earlier days, Vietnamese
> trade delegations would bring to America samples of products that are not
> marketable here.  That doesn't happen much anymore.
> The local hawkers do not intend to pester the tourists.  They just don't
> realize/understand the negative consequence of their hard work.  The
> authorities' approach to hawkers appear to be binary; they are either
> banned altogether or allowed unfettered access to the tourists.  Central
> or local authorities can really help by educating the hawkers to provide
> more of what is needed and wanted by the tourists and less of pestering.
> The example with your relatives' experience is a good case in point, and
> it's not unique.  But they don't have a channel to give feed back to
> tourism authorities that are in a position to effect improvement.  Whether
> they will actually do it is a different issue.  A training session on how
> not to bother tourists and a suggested list of goods to sell, including
> sunscreen (though most tourists likely have their own) would be simple
> things the authorities can do that can help both the local hawkers to
> provide the appropriate services and the tourists to enjoy their
> experience.
> I hear that Hoi An did a good job in planning a tourism policy.  Others
> may benefit from their best practices.
> I remember the hawkers at Angkor Wat who always stopped once you've
> entered the perimeter of a ruin.  I appreciated the cold soda they offered
> me in the middle of a hot, sun drenched field and thought how I would have
> gladly paid more for it.
> Best,  HPP
>
>
>
>
> Shane Wall <shane.wall at translingualexpress.com>
> Sent by: vnbiz-bounces at mail.saigon.com
> 05/29/2007 06:00 PM
> Please respond to
> vnbiz at vietlinks.net
>
>
> To
> vnbiz at vietlinks.net
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [Vnbiz] Nha Trang Bay
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
> Dear CACC,
>    The bay in Nha Trang may be beautiful, and worthy of World Heritage
> listing ( I don't believe it is currently listed. Can anybody show me a
> verifiable source that lists Vinh Nha Trang on the World Heritage list?
> I challenge you all!), but that is not the point.
>
>    The underlying point is this: How much of Vietnam's unique cultural
> and physical attractions should be 'adulterated' or 'changed' to cater
> for foreign tourists?
>
>    My initial thinking is NONE! Leave the attractions alone, but get
> much, much better at making the SERVICES which operate in and around
> those attractions more attractive to repeat visitors. We all know that
> lots of foreigners love to come to Vietnam. However, very, very few of
> them come back for a second or third visit. Why?
>
>    According to my Mom and Aunty, who visited in April (Sai Gon, Tay
> Ninh, Hue, Da Nang, Hoi An, Pleiku, Vung Tau, Vinh Long - we got around
> a bit), they could not stand people pestering them at every turn. One of
> their overwhelming feelings and emotions about their Vietnam visit is
> that: "Vietnamese people just want to sell you s**t that you don't want
> or need. Why don't they understand that if I am wearing sunglasses, I
> don't need another pair. Why would he physically stop me and try to sell
> me something I obviously do not need?"
>
>    My feeble answer was "He's just trying to make a buck." My Mom wisely
> replied, "Well he would be much more successful if he tried to sell me
> something I need. Can't he see my skin is as red as a b****y lobster?
> I'd buy some soothing sun-screen lotion from him, but another pair of
> sunglasses? Forget. What a loser!" - On the beach at Vung Tau.
>
>    Sadly, what foreign tourists WANT for a repeat visit is not what they
> get in Vietnam yet. That is why they go back to Thailand, Malaysia,
> Singapore, the Philippines, etc. many times, but seem to visit Vietnam
> only once.
>
> My 1000VND worth!
>
> Shane
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. Shane Wall
> Principal,
>
> Trans Lingual Express
> 120/14 Mai Thi Luu St,
> P. Dakao, Q.1, HCMC,
> Vietnam
>
> Mail: shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
> Web: www.translingualexpress.com
>
> Mbl: +84 (090) 9484 753 (Anh) - Tel: +84 (8) 820 9143 (Viet)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mercedes Benz wrote:
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Dear CACC,
> >
> > Both a. Duong and a. Thang are paritially correct (my opinion). Ithink
> > it s not Khanh Hoa's issue here.It is the complicated problem for
> > VNese government. Everyone  knows money can be made but Heritage,
> > nature .. hardly can. The first thought came to me is Khanh Hoa is
> > such a ridiculous guy. really angry in mind. Yes, but think deeply
> > raised out a bad sign of governance.
> > "Co thuc moi vuc duoc dao". Despite the campaign for Vietnamese
> > tourism, I think it has not gained an achievement as we expected. And
> > Khanh Hoa has its own reason. However, does the decision of Khanh Hoa
> > province help much the poor or only the rich? Big question I think.
> >
> > Regarding the a. Hoanh 1st question: I think Khanh Hoa absolutely do
> > not have such right. And the government MUST have their own decision
> > for which they are fully responsible. If the can not deal it
> > appropriately, that will be the bad practice for other provinces. It
> > will ruin our precious nature properties as well as culture and
> > tradition. Money can be good excuse for all circumstances!
> >
> > Secondly, education, our education need boosting and reforming more
> > and more. That is the key for our flourish and stable future.
> >
> > Finally, sorry to say that I do not know how we, VN citizens, can
> > contribute to the sustainable development of our country.
> >
> > It is really interesting to hear your ideas a bout that.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > On 5/26/07, *Tran Dinh Hoanh* <tdhoanh at gmail.com
> > <mailto:tdhoanh at gmail.com> > wrote:
> >
> >     [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> >
> >     Dear CACC,
> >
> >     Probably you have heard that Khanh Hoa authority was trying to do
> >     some tourist develoment in Nha Trang Bay but the Ministry of
> >     Culture and Information told it to stop because that would violate
> >     the World Heriatage rules, Nha Trang Bay being a World Heritage
> >     site.  Then, the vice-chairman of Khanh Hoa's People's Committee
> >     was quoted as saying that Nha Trang should request that its name
> >     be withdrawn from the World Heritage list.  (Previously, Khanh Hoa
> >     authorities had submitted a petition to have Vinh Nha Trang named
> >     as a World Heritage and that petition had been approved) (Please
> >     see VNEpxress article below).
> >
> >     Here are some issues I would like to hear your opinion on:
> >
> >     1.  Does Nha Trang has the right to withdraw itself from being a
> >     World Heritage site?  What if the central government in Hanoi says
> >     that Nha Trang cannot withdraw?  Does the central government has
> >     that right?
> >
> >     2.  This guy in Nha Trang seems to think that environment
> >     preservation hurts development.  Does that make sense?
> >     Please voice your opinion.
> >
> >     Have a great day!
> >
> >     Hoanh
> >     _________________
> >
> >
> >
> >     Thá»ÂÂ(c) bảy, 26/5/2007, 10:59
> GMT+7                  Bản
> ÄÂÂ'ể in <http:///>                 Gá»­i cho
> bạn
> >     bè <http:///>
> >
> >     'Vịnh Nha Trang không phải tài
> sản riêng
> của Khánh Hòa'
> >
> >     Thá»ÂÂ(c) trưởng Bộ Văn
> hóa Thông tin Trần
> Chiến Thắng cho rằng, tỉnh
> >     Khánh Hòa không phải một
> vÆ°Æ¡ng quá»ÂÂ'c,
> và vịnh Nha Trang không phải
> >     là tài sản riêng của
> Khánh Hòa. Mô
> hình kinh tế - xã hội thành
> >     công không bao giờ chấp
> nhận phát triển
> bằng mọi giá.
> >     > 'Vịnh Nha Trang ảnh hưởng
> ÄÂÂ'ến phát
> triển của Khánh Hòa'
> >     <http://www.vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Xa-hoi/2007/05/3B9F66E7/>/ Xin
> >     rút vịnh Nha Trang khỏi danh
> thắng quá»ÂÂ'c gia
> >     <http://www.vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Xa-hoi/2007/05/3B9F6633/>
> >
> >     /- ÃÂÂ"ng nghÄÂÂ(c) gì nếu nhÆ°
> ÄÂÂ'ịa phÆ°Æ¡ng
> chủ ÄÂÂ'ộng  xin rút vịnh Nha
> Trang
> >     khỏi danh thắng quá»ÂÂ'c gia? /
> >
> >     Thá»ÂÂ(c) trưởng Trần
> Chiến Thắng. Ảnh:
> /Tuổi Trẻ./
> >
> >     - Họ ÄÂÂ'ã ÄÂÂ'ề
> nghị ÄÂÂ'ược công
> nhận thì họ cÃÂ
ÂÂ(c)ng hoÃÂ n toÃÂ n
> có thể làm
> >     hÃÂ nh ÄÂÂ'ộng ngược
> lại. Chỉ có
> ÄÂÂ'iều tôi xin nói thẳng:
> có lẽ ÄÂÂ'ây lÃÂ
> >     ngoại lệ duy nhất trên
> thế giới. Cả
> thế giới ÄÂÂ'ều ra sá»ÂÂ(c)c
> phấn ÄÂÂ'ấu
> >     bảo tá»ÂÂ"n, tu bổ, gìn
> giữ và tìm mọi
> cách vận ÄÂÂ'ộng ÄÂÂ'ể
> danh lam thắng
> >     cảnh, di sản của mình
> ÄÂÂ'ược các
> tổ chá»ÂÂ(c)c quá»ÂÂ'c tế,
> quá»ÂÂ'c gia có uy tín
> >     công nhận và làm tất
> cả ÄÂÂ'ể giữ
> ÄÂÂ'ược danh hiệu. Chỉ
> có một mình
> >     Khánh Hòa không làm thế.
> >
> >     Tôi không trực tiếp nghe
> lãnh ÄÂÂ'ạo
> ÄÂÂ'ịa phÆ°Æ¡ng nÃÂ o phát
> ngôn, nhưng
> >     tôi nghÄÂÂ(c) khi nói nhÆ° vậy
> họ ÄÂÂ'ã quên
> mất tỉnh là một bộ
> phận của
> >     quá»ÂÂ'c gia chá»ÂÂ(c) không phải
> một vương
> quá»ÂÂ'c, và vịnh Nha Trang không
> >     phải là tài sản riêng
> của Khánh Hòa,
> mà là tài sản chung của
> quá»ÂÂ'c
> >     gia, thậm chí của toàn
> nhân loại.
> >
> >     /- Nhiều lãnh ÄÂÂ'ạo
> ÄÂÂ'ịa phÆ°Æ¡ng vÃÂ
> nhÃÂ  ÄÂÂ'ầu tÆ° từng "kêu"
> rằng ở những
> >     vùng "ÄÂÂ'ụng ÄÂÂ'âu cÃÂ
ÂÂ(c)ng
> là di tích" thì
> khó làm ăn chá»ÂÂ(c) nói gì
> ÄÂÂ'ến phát
> >     triển. ÃÂÂ"ng ÄÂÂ'ánh giá
> thế nào? /
> >
> >     - Sao họ không thấy may mắn
> vì nước ta
> có nhiều di tích? Chúng ta
> >     từng có nhiều cảnh
> ÄÂÂ'ẹp, di sản quí
> giá, nhưng một thời gian dài
> >     không ÄÂÂ'ược quan tâm
> gìn giữ ÄÂÂ'úng
> má»ÂÂ(c)c nên ÄÂÂ'ã bị hủy
> hoại nhiều. Bây
> >     giờ ÄÂÂ'ã ÄÂÂ'ến lúc
> phải cá»ÂÂ' giữ
> ná»ÂÂ't những gì còn lại.
> >
> >     Mâu thuẫn giữa bảo
> tá»ÂÂ"n và phát
> triển là ÄÂÂ'iều mà quá»ÂÂ'c
> gia nÃÂ o cÃÂ
ÂÂ(c)ng
> >     ÄÂÂ'ã vÃÂ  ÄÂÂ'ang gặp
> phải. Nhưng kinh nghiệm
> của những mô hình kinh tế -
> >     xã hội thành công nhất cho
> thấy họ
> không bao giờ chấp nhận
> phát
> >     triển bằng mọi giá.
> Phát triển ÄÂÂ'ể
> môi trường bị hủy
> hoại, ÄÂÂ'ể vùi
> >     lấp các giá trị
> truyền thá»ÂÂ'ng, ÄÂÂ'ể
> mình không còn là mình nữa
> thì
> >     phát triển làm gì?
> >
> >     /- Vậy Bộ sẽ giải
> quyết ra sao khi
> nhận ÄÂÂ'ề nghị chính
> thá»ÂÂ(c)c xin rút
> >     vịnh Nha Trang khỏi danh sách danh
> thắng quá»ÂÂ'c
> gia của UBND tỉnh
> >     Khánh Hòa? /
> >
> >     - NhÆ° tôi ÄÂÂ'ã nói ở
> trên, vì ÄÂÂ'ây
> là một việc chưa hề
> có tiền lệ, vÃÂ
> >     vì vịnh Nha Trang không phải
> là tài sản
> riêng của Khánh Hòa nên
> Bộ
> >     sẽ cho ÄÂÂ'ăng báo công
> bá»ÂÂ' toàn bộ các
> thông tin trên và sẽ mở
> diá»ÂÂ
n
> >     ÄÂÂ'ÃÂ n thá»±c hiện trÆ°ng
> cầu ý kiến
> toàn dân. Nhưng tôi vẫn hi
> vọng Bộ
> >     không phải làm việc
> ÄÂÂ'ó.
> >
> >     //
> >
> >     *ÃÂÂ"ng Paul Stoll - TGĐ Công ty TÆ°
> vấn Dịch
> vụ Du lịch Quá»ÂÂ'c tế
> >     Celadon: Khánh Hòa ÄÂÂ'ừng vì
> lợi ích
> trước mắt!*
> >
> >     ÃÂÂ"ng Paul Stoll. Ảnh: /Tuổi
> Trẻ./
> >
> >     Tôi nghÄÂÂ(c) chính quyền tỉnh
> Khánh Hòa
> ÄÂÂ'ừng vì những lợi
> ích trước
> >     mắt mÃÂ  quên ÄÂÂ'i một
> tiềm năng chẳng
> phải nÆ¡i nào cÃÂ
ÂÂ(c)ng có thể
> có
> >     ÄÂÂ'ược. Trong quá trình
> phát triển, phải
> biết mình muá»ÂÂ'n ÄÂÂ'ạt
> ÄÂÂ'ược
> >     thành tựu gì trong tương lai.
> >
> >     Nếu ÄÂÂ'ã chọn phát
> triển theo kế
> hoạch dài hơi thì không
> thể ngay
> >     lập tá»ÂÂ(c)c thu ÄÂÂ'ược
> lợi nhuận. Thành
> công trong kinh tế không chỉ ÄÂÂ'o
> >     bằng sá»ÂÂ' tiền mà chính
> quyền ÄÂÂ'ó thu
> ÄÂÂ'ược. Đó còn
> là sự trong sạch
> >     của môi trường sá»ÂÂ'ng,
> cuộc sá»ÂÂ'ng
> của người dân hạnh
> phúc hơn. Phát
> >     triển kinh tế thành công
> ÄÂÂ'ể lÃÂ m gì khi
> môi trường sá»ÂÂ'ng càng
> trở
> >     nên tệ hơn? Nếu chỉ
> tập trung cho phát
> triển kinh tế, liệu có
> ÄÂÂ'ảm
> >     bảo môi trường
> và cảnh quan của
> vịnh Nha Trang sẽ tá»ÂÂ't hÆ¡n
> bây giờ?
> >
> >     (Theo /Tuổi Trẻ/)
> >
> >
> >     --
> >     Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
> >     Washington DC
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
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