[Vnbiz] Staying to be a Leader -- the Champion of Values
Shane Wall
shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
Thu May 10 14:40:05 PDT 2007
Hi anh Phong,
I agree with you in part, but also disagree in parts. I think there
is a place for the "animal" part of Homo Sapiens in the way we conduct
ourselves culturally, socially and politically.
The philosophy of separation between humans and "animals" which I
have, is one that I learned from my Grandmother. She was a simple
farmer's wife in a very inhospitable region of Australia. Her 15
pregnancies blessed her with 12 children. She was not only the Mother to
this "tribe", but their mentor and guide through life. In one of the
most harshest farming places in Australia, her strength, nurturing and
wisdom has enabled her family to now number over 300 people making their
own way in the world. Me included.
So what, you may rightly ask. The simple fact is that her philosophy
was that up until about 3 years of age (depending upon the maturation
period of the species), human and animal babies (Grandma was referring
to dogs, horses, oxen and other "domesticated" animals - she once had a
pet pig that behaved more like a dog - before it got eaten!) should be
treated the same. Quote: "They're all stupid until they know their own
rules." Unquote
For me it is about "knowing the rules". For others it has a different
name. Of course it is a big question, but a baby human who is only 1
minute old is still very much an "animal" in the biological sense.
We are all animals, it is how we choose to use the power of reasoning
not shared by our fellow animals that sets us apart. If I am wrong,
please tell me.
Shane
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Shane Wall
Principal,
Trans Lingual Express
120/14 Mai Thi Luu St,
P. Dakao, Q.1, HCMC,
Vietnam
Mail: shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
Web: www.translingualexpress.com
Mbl: +84 (090) 9484 753 - Tel: +84 (8) 820 9143
Hong-Phong_Pho at ita.doc.gov wrote:
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I don't think animal pecking orders and human values can be put in the
> same basket. In the animal world (and some human societies), the
> primary law is survival of the fittest, modified by survival of the
> species when the weaker young are protected. There is no taking care
> of the old and infirmed. The worker ants slave away all day long
> because that is its specific job. Some people of the age of slavery
> not so long ago holds the value that it is natural for blacks to be
> slaves because they are designed to be so. It took a great civil war
> and a long time to change that set of values. In India, where the
> caste system existed, some human are considered untouchables. But
> that is also changing. Human values evolve, animal's rules do not. HPP
>
>
>
> *"Tran Dinh Hoanh" <tdhoanh at gmail.com>*
> Sent by: vnbiz-bounces at mail.saigon.com
>
> 05/10/2007 08:18 AM
> Please respond to
> vnbiz at vietlinks.net
>
>
>
> To
> vnbiz at vietlinks.net
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [Vnbiz] Staying to be a Leader -- the Champion of Values
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
> Dear Brother Thien & CACC,
>
> If we watch animal groups, they have their own law and orders, and
> many of them are similar to human rules, such as parents taking care
> of children and defending the children, children loving parents, each
> animal holding a specific job in a group, united against common
> enemies, taking care of the old and the weak, etc. So obviously there
> are social rules even before [human] social consciousness develops.
> And these rules are not man-made. We can call them natural law or
> whatever, but certainly they are not man-made.
>
> But of course, we human develop our societies and our values to a much
> more complex level through socilization and learning.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> Hoanh
>
>
> On 5/10/07, *Tran Ba Thien* <_tranbathien at gmail.com_
> <mailto:tranbathien at gmail.com>> wrote:
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>
>
> Dear CACC
>
> From the question: Values, are we born with them?
>
> In 20th century, psychologists gave cases of children, who lived with
> animals in forests and had no chance to meet human society. Those
> children could not have human social values. Psychologists concluded
> that value was not from natural but socialized.
>
> Some sociologist say values are somethings that your society expect
> from you and also somthing that you try to reach in performing your
> social role. IE. there is a young lady. Her parent and her family
> members expect that she would marry good man. The values of that good
> man in the mind of her family are handsom, good education, good job,
> good personality and etc. What happens when she loves an old and poor
> man, who is older than her over 30 years? What happens when she loves
> someone, who is less than her 12 years? her family members never
> expect for those.
>
> Besides the expectation from others, values is what you try to reach.
> Sometime value is your painful trial. Back to the story of the young
> lady above, when she loves someone that her family members don't
> expect for the love values. If she thinks love is her personal choice,
> personal freedom, she respects the values of love, she must overcome
> her family barrier to reach to that value.But if she thinks the value
> of her birth family is the highest, she must painfully follow her
> family and deny the unexpecting love. it's not her sacrify for the
> value but only her choice.
>
> for my oppinion, I accept values are from socialization and from
> learning. You learn values in class and in interaction to people. I.E.
> in a room without the sign of "no smoking", no one smoke at the room.
> You see the fact then you don't want to smoke here even you are
> desired for smoking now. But 30 years ago, when smoking was allowed
> everywhere, you would not pay attention for if any smoke or not. You
> would smoke whenever you like. Smoking at right place is value of
> today personality.Why is it up today but not in 30 or 50 years ago?
> Because today people expect you to perform the value and because you
> want to keep the value.
>
> Values are born in socializing process and social developing process.
> Values help stabilize society. No value will link to no human society.
>
> Do value come from God? or any supernatural powers? I have no idea on
> the issue. I disagree the idea of conserving traditional values
> without any assessments. I.E. nhan, le, nghia, tri, tin, some say they
> are very good. But other say no, they aren't quite good. Some say
> Confucius standards may bring better living quality. Some disagree.
> They argue that bad leaders use the unmeasurable standards of
> Confucius for their dominant. Relativist view say life is constituted
> on many opposite sides. It's really a big confuse for us to take a
> choice especially in value conflicts.
>
> In aesthetic view, they define what is good and what is beauty. Good
> is something support physical life. beauty is something enhance and
> promote spiritual life. Picture with only blood and death body cannot
> be beautiful. It may be beautiful when the author shows out living
> creature is trying to rise up through out the death. In daily living,
> it's hard to seperate which is good and which is beauty. The 2 things
> mix together in our activities. When you give food to someone, the
> activity supports their life and it raises your heart up too. For my
> experience, I always use the 2 values as basic values to judge other
> values in order to take options. Yes, it's not easy to take decision
> in conflicts of value.
>
> Karl Mannheim said their was no rule for every time, every body, every
> case. I'd like his idea. Many generations have tried to find a rule
> that's no matter of time, of culture, of place of everything else. but
> they fail. Therefore Mannheim went to his conclusion of no rule for
> everything. Scientificly, I may say that it seems the 2 value of
> aesthetic are my base. I use the verb "seem" because I am not sure
> that I always obey my rule.
>
> Bestg wishes,
>
>
> Tran Ba Thien_
> __tranbathien at gmail.com_ <mailto:tranbathien at gmail.com>
> --
> Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
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