[Vnbiz] Staying to be a Leader -- the Champion of Values

Thu May 10 09:28:52 PDT 2007

I don't think animal pecking orders and human values can be put in the 
same basket.  In the animal world (and some human societies), the primary 
law is survival of the fittest, modified by survival of the species when 
the weaker young are protected.  There is no taking care of the old and 
infirmed.  The worker ants slave away all day long because that is its 
specific job.  Some people of the age of slavery not so long ago holds the 
value that it is natural for blacks to be slaves because they are designed 
to be so.  It took a great civil war and a long time to change that set of 
values.  In India, where the caste system existed, some human are 
considered untouchables.  But that is also changing.  Human values evolve, 
animal's rules do not.  HPP

"Tran Dinh Hoanh" <tdhoanh at gmail.com> 
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05/10/2007 08:18 AM
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Re: [Vnbiz] Staying to be a Leader -- the Champion of Values

[ Vietnam Business Forum ]

Dear Brother Thien & CACC,

If we watch animal groups, they have their own law and orders, and many of 
them are similar to human rules, such as parents taking care of children 
and defending the children, children loving parents, each animal holding a 
specific job in a group, united against common enemies, taking care of the 
old and the weak, etc.  So obviously there are social rules even before 
[human] social consciousness develops.  And these rules are not man-made. 
We can call them natural law or whatever, but certainly they are not 
man-made. 

But of course, we human develop our societies and our values to a much 
more complex level through socilization and learning.

Have a great day!

Hoanh

On 5/10/07, Tran Ba Thien <tranbathien at gmail.com> wrote: 
[ Vietnam Business Forum ]

Dear CACC

>From the question: Values, are we born with them?

In 20th century, psychologists gave cases of children, who lived with 
animals in forests and had no chance to meet human society. Those children 
could not have human social values. Psychologists concluded that value was 
not from natural but socialized. 

Some sociologist say values are somethings that your society expect from 
you and also somthing that you try to reach in performing your social 
role. IE. there is a young lady. Her parent and her family members expect 
that she would marry good man. The values of that good man in the mind of 
her family are handsom, good education, good job, good personality and 
etc. What happens when she loves an old and poor man, who is older than 
her over 30 years? What happens when she loves someone, who is less than 
her 12 years? her family members never expect for those. 

Besides the expectation from others, values is what you try to reach. 
Sometime value is your painful trial. Back to the story of the young lady 
above, when she loves someone that her family members don't expect for the 
love values. If she thinks love is her personal choice, personal freedom, 
she respects the values of love, she must overcome her family barrier to 
reach to that value.But if she thinks the value of her birth family is the 
highest, she must painfully follow her family and deny the unexpecting 
love. it's not her sacrify for the value but only her choice.

for my oppinion, I accept values are from socialization and from learning. 
You learn values in class and in interaction to people. I.E. in a room 
without the sign of "no smoking", no one smoke at the room. You see the 
fact then you don't want to smoke here even you are desired for smoking 
now. But 30 years ago, when smoking was allowed everywhere, you would not 
pay attention for if any smoke or not. You would smoke whenever you like. 
Smoking at right place is value of today personality.Why is it up today 
but not in 30 or 50 years ago? Because today people expect you to perform 
the value and because you want to keep the value.

Values are born in socializing process and social developing process. 
Values help stabilize society. No value will link to no human society. 

Do value come from God? or any supernatural powers? I have no idea on the 
issue. I disagree the idea of conserving traditional values without any 
assessments. I.E. nhan, le, nghia, tri, tin, some say they are very good. 
But other say no, they aren't quite good. Some say Confucius standards may 
bring better living quality. Some disagree. They argue that bad leaders 
use the unmeasurable standards of Confucius for their dominant. Relativist 
view say life is constituted on many opposite sides. It's really a big 
confuse for us to take a choice especially in value conflicts. 

In aesthetic view, they define what is good and what is beauty. Good is 
something support physical life. beauty is something enhance and promote 
spiritual life. Picture with only blood and death body cannot be 
beautiful. It may be beautiful when the author shows out living creature 
is trying to rise up through out the death. In daily living, it's hard to 
seperate which is good and which is beauty. The 2 things mix together in 
our activities. When you give food to someone, the activity supports their 
life and it raises your heart up too. For my experience, I always use the 
2 values as basic values to judge other values in order to take options. 
Yes, it's not easy to take decision in conflicts of value. 

Karl Mannheim said their was no rule for every time, every body, every 
case. I'd like his idea. Many generations have tried to find a rule that's 
no matter of time, of culture, of place of everything else. but they fail. 
Therefore Mannheim went to his conclusion of no rule for everything. 
Scientificly, I may say that it seems the 2 value of aesthetic are my 
base. I use the verb "seem" because I am not sure that I always obey my 
rule. 

Bestg wishes,

Tran Ba Thien
tranbathien at gmail.com
-- 
Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
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