[Vnbiz] Legal Gambling? [Related news & questions?]

Mon Jun 18 03:54:03 PDT 2007

Re. casinos' existence, access in Saigon: Confirm mini-casinos with
one-armed bandits, roulette wheels, etc at some ****+ hotels here, the
Palazzo at the Sheraton Saigon, for example.  Ethnic Vietnamese and others
play.  Locals' level(s) of access unknown.

In possibly related news, the people's rag of choice in one of my old
hometowns, The Barrie Examiner, details a CNN International TV report that
caught my eye for some reason just this morning, "Casino ripoff suspects get
bail", about "Two people charged in an alleged criminal organization that
involved high-stakes cheating at Casino Rama were released from jail
yesterday":

After spending most of the week roaming the halls of the Barrie courthouse,
family members were reunited with Hong Hanh (Hanna) Truong, 36, a female
dealer at Casino Rama.

Also released on bail was Hai Dao Tran, 27, of Windsor, who is alleged to
have been part of the criminal organization.

Earlier this week Philip Chung, 49, of Toronto, who was also dealer at
Casino Rama, was released on bail and a fourth person, John Tran, 26, of
Windsor, was denied bail. All have a future court date on June 26.

Full report (at one ashugly long url)
here<http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=553631&catname=Local%2520News&classif=News>

Meanwhile, in the northwestest US state, where Canadada and the US rub
cheeks, the Seattle Times is
reporting<http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003748892_nickels15m.html>that
the Seattle mayor's son Jacob Dyson Nickels, 25, is pleading not
guilty
to "one count of conspiracy and four counts of theft of funds from gaming
establishments on Indian lands. A total of 24 people have been charged by
federal grand juries in Seattle and San Diego for allegedly cheating at 18
casinos in seven states and in Canada."

Notes:

   - Re "... Indian [sic] lands...", NAm's (North America's) "gaming"
   laws discriminate between Native NAmericans (still mistaken in some quarters
   for folks from India) and non-native NAm'ans.
   - "Casino Rama is a large casino, hotel and entertainment complex
   located on Mnjikaning First Nation land in the town of Rama, Ontario,
   Canada" -- thanks yet again to
Wikipedia<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Rama>.
   "First Nations", Native NAm'ans: same, same.
   - Ms Hanh/ah and Messrs Dao and John-Tran are apparently of some sort
   of Vietnamese ethnicity and legal status in NAm.
   - The Seattle Times report only names the mayor's son as a suspect,
   but,
   - The two reports are united in this 25.May CBC report, "Casino Rama
   workers arrested in U.S.-Canada
ring"<http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/05/25/casinos-scam.html>.

I'm imagining several imminently illustrative links between these gaming
frauds in NAm and some of this thread's questions about VietNam's
potentially discriminatory gambling laws.  Anyone else into having a go at
it?

Cheers,
AD

Links in case HTML doesn't work here:
01.
http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=553631&catname=Local%20News&classif=News
02.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003748892_nickels15m.html
03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Rama
04. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/05/25/casinos-scam.html

On 6/18/07, Tran Dinh Hoanh <tdhoanh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>
> Dear brother Quang Anh and CACC,
>
> That is interesting.  Now let's do some further legal analysis.
>
> 1.  I think we can safely assume that the Prime Minister has the legal
> authority to discriminate against foreigners (because "foreigners," by
> definition, has no rights under the national law.  This is true in any
> country.  So we have to structure the legal argument this way: "The prime
> minister is discriminating against foreigners here, by allowing them to
> gamble, allowing to sin so that they can go to hell earlier."  :-)
>
> Other than this argument, the fact appears that the Prime Minister is
> discriminating against the Vietnamese.  Let's agree that prohibiting the
> Vietnamese against gambling is a good thing; that means the prime minister
> is doing a good thing for the Vietnamese (as brother Quang anh alluded to in
> his message).  Good thing, so what?  Discrimination is discrimination.
> The legal question is:  Does the prime minister has the legal authority to
> discriminate against his own people?
>
> Why is this question important?  Because in other cases, the
> discrimination can be really bad.  Say, if the prime ministers allow
> foreigners to freely do demonstration on the street, but does not allow the
> Vietnamese to demonstrate on the street, then we have serious problem,
> haven't we?
>
> I assume, if I am the Prime Minister's lawyer, I may defend him with is
> argument:  The Prime Minister is not "discriminating" against the Vietnamese
> in this case, he simply "protects" them (following brother Quang Anh's line
> of thinking). I think this argument, in this case, is probably good enough
> kill the discrimination charge.
>
> But I still would love to know if there is any jurisprudence on this point
> out there.
>
> In any event, the discrimination issue is settled.
>
> 2.  But here is another problem. The Prime Minister doesn't have the legal
> authority to create an exception to a law passed by the National Assembly.
> Gambling is a crime in the criminal code.  The prime minister does not have
> legal authority to say "If you are a foreigner, you may gamble."  That is an
> exception to the criminal law passed by the National Assembly; the NA has to
> specifically allow that exception itself (by another law).
>
> Is there a law that allows the Prime Minister to make an exception to the
> gambling prohibition?  If there is no such legal basis, then the Pirime
> Minister's Decision 32/2003/QĐ-TTg may be unlawful, and therefore null and
> void.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> Hoanh
>
>
> On 6/17/07, QuangAnh.Nguyen at dfat.gov.au <QuangAnh.Nguyen at dfat.gov.au >
> wrote:
> >
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> > Dear Brother Hoanh and CACC
> >
> > This is an interesting point on what should be of discrimination and
> > what
> > should not.
> >
> > I would like to contribute to this discussion by attaching the PM's
> > decision on this business activity for your reference. According to
> > Article
> > 7 of this legal document, players of this entertainment shall be
> > foreigners
> > and OV only.
> >
> > I assume that the approach of the government was that this entertainment
> > is
> > legal crime for Vietnamese people, but not a crime in some parts of the
> > world (?). Therefore, to attract the guest (tourists/investors, etc.) to
> >
> > our country, the government decided to open this entertainment in this
> > kind.
> >
> > It is alike tax applicable for cars imported by (diplomat) foreigners
> > and
> > Vietnamese people. The first subject can import tax-free cars, while
> > Vietnamese people ought to pay about  150% of the car value
> > additionally.
> >
> > In some areas, the state is entitled to provide certain incentives or
> > limitation, with sound rationals. Of course, we may hope that all of
> > those
> > are fair and well-justified...
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Have a good week!
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > Nguyen Quang ANH
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
> > Washington DC
>
>
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