[Vnbiz] Leadership -- Knowledge in Human Affairs (used to be "Nha Trang Bay")

Wed Jun 13 03:22:19 PDT 2007

Anh Phong, anh Hoanh and All,

  Anh Phong, your arguments make a lot sense to me.

  and I just want to share something with anh Hoanh: I don't know what kind of "VCP" you met in VN, but I grew up and were educated in the communist/socialist system, and never heard about any government officials talk about HCM as a "religious" leader, but as a nationalist and communist, and the Vietnamese is NOT forced to worship him.  we were taught about communism as a "leading ideology of the Party", not as a religion ever. we were taught to praise, to follow and be loyal to the communist party, not to worship it as a religion as you mentioned because it is simply NOT a religion. I didn't see the communist party manipulates religion as a way to influence or "indoctrinate" people at all. They keep religion separate from politics pretty well in my opinion. 

  To be fair with Ho Chi Minh without criticizing his political ideology (b/c political ideology is always criticized by the opposition everywhere, under any political regime), he was viewed as one of national heroes by the Vietnamese because he did lead Vietnam to the independence and finished the French colony that lasted for almost a century. He became a part of Vietnam's history and a leader to many generation of the Vietnamese born before 1975 at least in the North and Central areas (not sure about the south, then don't want to generalize). Therefore your desire to "stay away from talking about him" while you want to become friendly/understanding with "all Vietnamese brothers and sisters" is impossible.

  And if you spend more time in/around Vietnam, you might notice that a lot of Vietnameses have a tradition of worshiping national heroes ( "khan vai") such as Tran Hung Dao, Ba Trung, Ba Trieu....etc. because they were considered as "holy warriors"....but this is only at personal/individual level because of not only to remember them, but also for supertitious reasons,  and the government plays no role in these activities. Maybe HCM became one of those heroes to be worshipped by some people.

  And  I personally think that America can be a better example for how politicians use religion in politics and issue-oriented policy debates than in Vietnam. I just wonder, in the history of human kind, maybe religion could have been viewed as a "short-cut" to gain the largest support base of voters and followers because it is easier to get the entire groups of supporters who have the same set of belief and values rather than dealing with every single individual?  I need more input from CACC who is more knowledgable about religiousm.

  peace,
  huong 

Tran Dinh Hoanh <tdhoanh at gmail.com> wrote:
  [ Vietnam Business Forum ]

  Dear Brother Phong & CACC,

  Let me point out the danger of "pigeon-holed" knowledge.  Today, in some circles, there is this discouragement against anything that may be labeled "religion."  So good knowledge from a teacher will not be learned freely, if the teacher is labeled "religious."  On the other hand, stupid political stuff will be promoted freely if it is labeled "religious freedom." 

  We need to look past the label to the substance of things.  If "religious" is barred, then Victor Hugo should not be mentioned because the Cao Dao people worship him, Confucianism should not be learned because it is a religion in many circles.  Same thing with Taoism.  Also Pitagoras (sp?), the mathematician, because there was an ancient religion that worshiped him.  A member f a VCP told me that Communism is a religion, in the way it indoctrinates people.  So let's not talk about Communism and anything good in socialism.  And the way people khan vai to Ho Chi Minh and talk constantly about his teaching is very "religious" to me.  We need to stay away from talking about him too. 

  On the other hand, anything stupid around, from con artists cheating people for money to opportunist trouble-making politicos who use religion as a political cover should be highly respected because of "freedom of religion." 

  We need to look at the real substance, and ignore the label.  Learn the good thing and bar the bad thing.  It is that simple.

  Have a great day!

  Hoanh

  On 6/12/07, Hong-Phong_Pho at ita.doc.gov <Hong-Phong_Pho at ita.doc.gov > wrote:     [ Vietnam Business Forum ]

Dear anh Hoanh, 
Neither Jesus nor Buddha are governmental nor political leaders.  Nor do they claim to be. 
Jesus said his Kingdom is not of this world. 
We are still living in the age of nation states, with competing interests.  Follow religious teachings verbatim and a leader would be out of a country. 
That's just reality.  The best we have come up with so far is how to regulate competion with the rule of law, a decidedly unemotional area.  It's not ideal, but we haven't evolved to the ideal yet. 
Some very wise people came up with the separation of church and state idea because they learned that religion can manipulate and be manipulated to the detriment of human welfare.  Their experiment worked well so far, or atleast better than ideology that are more Utopian, such as Marxism. 
I am not against training of the human heart and respect your idea of doing so. 
I feel the need to point out where the application is not applicable given the existing human condition. 
Your writing is important to many people, hence the need to be extra careful and judicious. 
Cheers,  HPP 

-- 
Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
Washington DC 
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