[Vnbiz] Nha Trang Bay

Thu Jun 7 09:07:28 PDT 2007

"That is why I believe the idea of collective debate and advance planning
is a must .  Of course,  Nha Trang miniature models with roads,
infrastructure could be planned , replanned, do/redo many times with the
participation of the people of Nha Trang. All issues about pollution, trash
removal, water etc.. will be presented and worked out early as
infrastructure for the new Nha Trang.
" If you fail to plan, then plan to fail ....."   "

I agree wholeHEARTedly.  Only that, we here, in this forum engage in a
positive, yes critical, debate that is constructive, and will further the
goals of development for all people of Viet Nam (all people in the world).
But that is my opinion and I would resign if others wanted to go in other
directions. Certainly haphazard development that only enriches a few rather
than work to the benefit of the masses will not only fail but waste precious
resources. Vietnam has opportunities to leapfrog past the mistakes of others
who have developed earlier.  I would implore those working on the
development of the nation to look at those mistakes and avoid them.
Haphazard development, with inadequate planning and foresight would be
detrimental.  Of course all stakeholders should be involved in such
endeavors as locals know better than those far away the problems faced
locally.

Planning as you describe only works to maintain stability and utilize
resources effectively.

Craig

On 6/7/07, pthang at comcast.net <pthang at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> Everyday, I walk to Rockville , MD metro station to go to work.  The metro
> station is next to Rockville courthouse block, also called Rockville  town
> center.  There is a property lot
> north of the Rockville courthouse block where CVS, magruder grocery store
> were there about a 1.5 years ago.  The property lot size is sure less than
> 2 acres of land.  Before they razed the land and prepared to build the new
> Rockville townsquare on it. There were several public hearing where
> everybody were invited to raise their voice. I  went to Magruder every week
> because of fresh food at competitive price .  I had no idea what would be
> done  in its place.  I sided with Magruder to oppose the city plan to clear
> the lot and I did not bother to see the miniature model when the city of
> Rockville mayor presented during public hearing.
> Anyway, I saw a lot construction during last year.
>
> Now the construction is 80% complete. There are starbuck, five guys , and
> many high end stores and restaurant in that same lot. On top of the stores,
> they build condos. In the same town square there is a state of the art
> public library.   The project is indeed looking great.
> I went into the sales office to ask for the price of a condo with 2
> bedroom. The basic model is $380K with options extra . There are only a few
> units left.
>
> In other words, I was wrong to assume that the city is screwing us up .
> They did a very good job of planning. For the same small lot of land, they
> have transformed it into billion dollars business property  which bring in a
> lot of jobs for the people .  That is why I believe the idea of collective
> debate and advance planning  is a must .  Of course,  Nha Trang miniature
> models with roads, infrastructure could be planned , replanned, do/redo many
> times with the participation of the people of Nha Trang. All issues about
> pollution, trash removal, water etc.. will be presented and worked out early
> as infrastructure for the new Nha Trang.
>
> " If you fail to plan, then plan to fail ....."
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thang
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Tran Dinh Hoanh" <tdhoanh at gmail.com>
>
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> > Dear CACC,
> >
> > Let's look at this Nha Trang Bay issue from a larger angle. Let's
> > look at the governance issue and the people's participation into the
> > decision making process.
> >
> > Obviously these guys in Khanh Hoa UBND wants to do something like
> > shave some island bald and put on it a bunch of hotels and cement
> > blocks. In this case, it is good that Ministery of Information and
> > Culture was involved to stop such activity, for now. Here is my
> > concern. I imagine most people in Nha Trang don't like such
> > "development," as brother Thien said emotionally. (Brother Thien, I
> > grew up in Nha Trang. I went to primary school in Truong Tieu Hoc Ha
> > D ua in Thanh, and attended 6th and 7th grade in Trung Hoc Vo Tanh, now
> > Ly Tu Trong. So I am still hopelessly in love with Nha Trang).
> >
> > 1. But the question is: Do the people of Nha Trang have a right
> > into the decision making process? The foreigners come and pay (above
> > the table and under the table); the officials probably have personal
> > reasons to agree with the foreigners, so they sign paperwork. Do the
> > people of Nha Trang have any right to say anything in the matter
> > before the decision is made? Is there a public hearing for citizens
> > to attend to raise their voice before a development project is
> > approved? Government officials make decision; but do the people
> > have the right to hear the matter and raise their voice before the
> > officials make the decision?
> >
> > We have heard about democracy, grassroot democracy, dan lam chu (the
> > people is boss). The truth is, t he people have no say-so in many
> > matters that affect their life. Why don't we just stop lying, and
> > start to design some system that let the people KNOW about a project
> > in advance and VOICE THEIR OPINION about that project before the
> > officials decide?
> >
> > 2. The above question is for "the government." Here is an idea for
> > "the people." Can we VNBIZERs come up with a sytematic approach to
> > give the people a place to raise their voice on issues that affect
> > their life and their environment? Say, can we have a website about
> > Vinh Nha Trang, post relevant materials there, and let people come to
> > the site to voice their opinion. And we can do that with every major
> > issue somewhere. each issue a website, such as a blog.
> >
> > That is how to can give more voice to our people, make our country a
> > little more democratic, and give our government more feedback
> > ch annels .
> >
> > Can come brother/sister come up with something?
> >
> > Have a great day!
> >
> > Hoanh
> >
> > On 6/1/07, Tran Ba Thien wrote:
> > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > >
> > > Dear CACC,
> > >
> > > Toi vua di du lich o Nha Trang tu ngay chu nhat 27 den thu nam
> 31/5/2007 ve.
> > > Toi da di tham cac diem du lich nhu Hon Ngoc Viet Vin Pearl bang cap
> treo,
> > > tham cac dao trong vinh Nha Trang bang thuyen du lich, tham doc Let
> v.v...
> > > va v.v...
> > >
> > > Toi di vao luc ma moi noi o hi thuyen dung lai o hon Mun, khu sinh
> thai bien
> > > duy nhat tai Vietnam, khach du lich duoc mac ao phao va nhay xuong
> bien ngam
> > > san ho. Mot anh ban di chung tau sau khi leo tro ve thuyen da hoi ha
> chup
> > > cac thang canh tren vung vinh nay. Anh noi:
> > >
> > > -Chang biet vai nam toi khi tro lai NT , nguoi ta da huy diet cai
> thien nhien
> > > nay den muc nao roi?
> > >
> > > Noi xong vai cau, anh nem cai lon nuoc ngot xuong bien khien nguoi
> huong dan
> > > vien du lich tren thuyen phai hot hoang la lon:
> > >
> > > Xin qui khach dung xa rac xuong vung bien nay. Chung ta dung tai pham
> cai
> > > sai lam cua cha ong khi ....
> > >
> > > Mot anh nhan vien tren thuyen lay vot de vot cai lon nuoc ngot kia
> truoc khi
> > > no kip chim xung day bien ben nhung rang san ho dep huyen ao kia.
> > >
> > > den Doc Let tam trong mot sang nuoc bien em nhu mot cai ho lon. Nhung
> nguoi
> > > dang tam o day vua vui dua vua voi va ngam
> > > nhin cai thien nhien long lay vi e rang vai nam nua, no se chang con.
> Dong
> > > thoi, ho cung phai ngamng
> > > nhin mat bien de tranh tam nhung noi dang noi leu beu nhung boc nylon
> dung
> > > rac va nhung mon can ba co n sot lai cua nganh ky nghe khong khoi bui
> nhung
> > > day rac thai nay.
> > >
> > > Dung la giua phat trien kinh te va bao ve moi truong thien nhien luon
> luon
> > > co nhung buoc di nguoc chieu nhau. Toi thay trong cai lo lang cua
> nhung
> > > nguoi dan NT va nhung nguoi khach du lich den NT co cai lo lon nhat la
> hay
> > > giu lai nguyen trang cai hinh thu, dang voc cua nhung ngon nui, hay
> giu lai
> > > nguyen trang cai mau xanh thuc vat tren cac trien nui, giu lai nhung
> rang
> > > san ho nhung bay ca du mau sac so boi loi quanh do... HO yeu cau rat
> nhieu
> > > va hau nhu khong ai nghi den cau hoi rang:
> > >
> > > -Ai se la nguoi co nhiem vu bao ve cai thien nhien xinh dep ay?
> > >
> > > Hau het deu nghi rang chinh phu la nguoi co trach nhiem. Sau chinh phu
> thi
> > > la nguoi khac, nhung nguoi nao do khong phai la toi xin vui long dung
> xa rac
> > > dung lam o nh iem mo i truong. co ve nhu cai y tuong bao ve thien
> nhien va bao
> > > ve moi truong dang duoc hieu nhu mot cai roi chi de danh nguoi khac ma
> khong
> > > danh chinh minh. Nguoi ta phan doi viec tan pha thien nhien va huy
> hoai moi
> > > truong cua nguoi khac mot cach het suc khat khe nhung lai tha thu va
> khoan
> > > dung cho hanh vi cua minh mot cach rat la "nhan tu". Anh ban cua toi
> sau khi
> > > hoi mac co vi cai lon bia nem xuong nuoc quay sang toi bao chua:
> > >
> > > -Nay gio tim mai chang thay cai gio rac tren tau de o cho nao nen minh
> vo y
> > > danh roi xuong nuoc.
> > >
> > > Co le, ban to chuc du lich cua chiec thuyen nay cung noi:
> > >
> > > -Minh ban ron cham soc khach hang nen sang nay vo y quen mang cai gio
> rac
> > > len thuyen...
> > >
> > > Toi sinh ra o NT nhung suot cuoc doi song tai Saigon. Toi yeu NT vo
> cung va
> > > cung cam thay dau l ong ne u NT bi tan pha boi ban tay cua con nguoi.
> Ro rang
> > > khong phai la NT sap bi huy diet nhung NT dang bi huy diet mot cach vo
> to
> > > chuc. Sap toi day nguoi ta se huy diet no mot cach co to chuc hon.
> Nguoi
> > > ngoai cuoc nhu toi se cam thay ganh ty vi minh hong duoc tham du vao
> tro huy
> > > diet nay. biet dau, phai biet dau, neu toi cung co mot phan hun kha
> lon
> > > torng mot cai cong ty nao do se cat ngang cai dinh nui cua dao Hon Tre
> va
> > > dung len do mot khu vui choi nhu Vin Pearl, hay xay mot cai thap Ba
> giong
> > > nguoi Chiem Thanh da lam hoi the ky thu 8 sau CN, hoac nhu nguoi phap
> cat
> > > phang mot ngon doi giua long thanh pho de dung len nha tho Nui Nha
> Trang nam
> > > 1930... Nhung cai do the he cua toi da quen nhin va cam thay hai long
> roi tu
> > > cho rang phai co Thap Ba, Nha Tho Nui, tuong Phat Thich Ca thi moi la
> Nha
> > > Trang. Nhung neu cat Hon Tre hay duc va o cac vach nui da chung quanh
> NT va
> > > khac len do nhung buc chan dung cac lanh tu nhu Quang Trung, Le Loi,
> Ho Chi
> > > Minh thi dong nghia voi tan pha Nha Trang? Biet dau va biet dau 100
> nam toi,
> > > the he sau se cho rang phai co cac buc tuong nu the, phai cat ngan cai
> chop
> > > nui cua Hon Tre nhu the thi moi la Nha Trang?
> > >
> > > Toi nho cai hom o New York gap mot co gai nguoi Alaska. Chi nay khoe
> voi toi
> > > rang chi la nguoi Eskimo va torng nhom bao ton van hoa Eskimo. Chi ke
> rang
> > > thanh nien Eskimo ngay nay song song voi viec hoc tai cac truong high
> > > schools, ho cung duoc hoc cach danh bat ca, cach xay nha tuyet igloo
> v.v...
> > > Toi hoi chi ay rang vay chi con noi duoc tieng Eskimo khong? chi lac
> dau.
> > >
> > > Toi roi Nha Trang vao sang thu nam 31/5 ma long cu phan van mai voi
> cau hoi
> > > rang roi mai NT cua toi se ra sao day? Toi den Mui Ne-P han Th iet o
> choi them
> > > 1 dem nua roi moi quay ve Sg. Chieu hom ay, chung toi den truot cat
> tai cac
> > > ngon doi cat do ma nguoi ta goi la Doi Hong. Nhung dua be dia phuong
> om nhom
> > > om nhach tay cam cac tam van truoc cat bu den doan chung toi moi thue
> van.
> > > Toi leo den dinh doi cat va tim cach hoi tham cac em.
> > > -Chau co di hoc khong? toi hoi
> > > -KHong, mot dua dap
> > > -Vay lam sao biet chu duoc? toi hoi
> > > -Da me chau day cho chau, no dap
> > > -Nha chau co may anh em? toi ho
> > > -Da co 5 nguoi chet mot nguoi con 4. 2 chi cua chau dang lam viec o
> Sg. Ba
> > > chau chi biet di nhau suot ngay. Thinh thoang ong moi ve rua cho me
> chau may
> > > cai chen. Con me chau thi ban sang di ban nuoc sam tren Doi Hong nay.
> > >
> > > Khi co may nguoi khach du lich khac cung vua leo len dinh doi cho
> chung toi
> > > dang ngoi nghi met. Ho tray a gi a thue tam van truot cat voi cac em.
> > >
> > > -500 thoi, may dua duoi chan doi noi chi 500 thoi chu lam gi 1000 nhu
> tui
> > > bay noi?
> > >
> > > Trong cai dem truoc ngay 1/6 Ngay quoc te thieu nhi, co mot doan tre
> con
> > > dang phai lao dong kiem song cho cha chung lay tien di danh so de, di
> uong
> > > ruou. Trong cai dem trang tron vang vac cua le Phat Dan, khi Duc Thich
> Ca
> > > con la cau be thai tu Tat Dat Da, cac em phai bo hoc phai lang thang.
> Toi
> > > dua cho chung to giay 100,000 cho ca nhom chia nhau. Co mot dua mung
> qua den
> > > cam on toi bao rang sang toi gio no chua kiem duoc dong nao het. Nhung
> ngon
> > > doi cao ngat ngheu nay, chung toi, nhung ke thua com thua tien leo len
> de
> > > tieu bot nang luong de vui choi. Chi can leo len mot lan la muon het
> ca hoi
> > > de tho. The ma cac chau phai leo len leo xuong moi ngay hang tram lan
> mong
> > > kiem d uoc va i ngan. Toi khong cho cac em 100,000 nhung da xin cac em
> hay cho
> > > toi duoc boi thuong. Cac em da hy sinh niem vui va tuong lai cua minh
> de
> > > nhung ke tra du, tuu hau chung toi co duoc mot dem trang trong vui ve
> voi
> > > con cai, voi ban be voi gia dinh.
> > >
> > > Gap cac em xong, toi cu tuong rang minh se noi voi chinh phu rang phai
> nhanh
> > > chong phat trien kinh te de nhung dua be nay khong con phai di kiem
> song
> > > trong dem Quoc Te Thieu Nhi va Le mung sinh nhat Phat Thich ca.. Toi
> chi
> > > tuong tuong nhu the ma thoi. Su that cau tra loi van con o xa lam cac
> ban
> > > ah...
> > >
> > > men
> > > Tran Ba Thien
> > > tranbathien at gmail.com
> > >
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