[Vnbiz] Leadership -- What are you looking for in your leader?
AD Marshall
admarshall at gmail.com
Wed Jul 18 09:44:29 PDT 2007
Good reduction, Chi Tea. In fact, i'd bet that if someone had real wisdom,
they'd have virtue, integrity, and several other good, basic qualities, too.
But there seems to be a trade-off between brevity and clarity or
verifiability arising here. Someone could say, "Just show me a real wise
guy, or gal, and s/he'll be my leader." Someone else might justifiable ask,
"Wise?" You might answer, "To know the difference between good and bad
knowledge or actions and to always choose and do good." and you'd have
provided an apparently good response. But would it be sufficient?
Wouldn't we need some further criteria we could use to identify or verify
the wisdom, virtue and integrity of such a person? And what if a
pre-pubescent child, like the Dalai Lama candidates, is shown to have
intuitive wisdom, virtue and integrity? Should we follow him or her? Or
does wisdom need to be balanced by, say, for example, experience?
And should we also ask good for who and what? Is what is "good" for a wise
Buddhist monk the same as what a wise business-person or a wise politician
will consider "good"? For example, how would we expect each of them to
judge the principle of buying low and selling high among poor people buying
goods and selling their labour? Or, if they live in an over-populated
emergent economy in a world faced with imminent human-induced environmental
collapse, what policies would we expect them to make or enforce about family
planning or advertising products and services related to raising families?
Just questions...
(Btw, another potential leadership model i've run into, for any Buddhist
business-folks here, might be Thich Minh Thanh of the South Central
Monastery in Binh Thanh, HCMC. I recently introduced him to gmail and
blogger.com and he's gone hog-wild with online publishing. He was already
proficient in computer usage, English and Chinese. Widely read and
travelled. Interpreted English to Vietnamese for the Dalai Lama in New York
a few years back. See, for example,
http://www.blogger.com/profile/11063141492749437626 for a list of all his
new blogs. The Giac Ngo English Club (GNEC) blog is in (what else?)
English, at http://giacngoenglishclub.blogspot.com/. The rest are mainly in
Vietnamese. Due disclosure: i'm his [part-time, temporary] "assistant" for
the GNEC. ;))
On 7/18/07, Tea (Tuy-Phuong) LeTran <tealetran at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>
> Yes, anh Craig. From these core traits we surely should be able to
> have all others. Per anh Hoanh's request, if I have to condense, here are
> my 3 core elements must have in a capable sensible leader:
>
> *WISDOM
> From Wisdom, we would gain knowledge to know the different.
>
> *VIRTUE
> From Virtue, we would be capable to identify what right from wrong. We
> would be more honest, more ethical, more moral, more humane, more
> considerate, more compassionate toward our fellows human being.
>
> *INTEGRITY
> From Integrity, we will command respect and inspiration from others. Out
> of respect and inspiration we'll receive unfading cooperation in all
> aspects.
>
> Great day everyone! Please be well and be safe!
>
> TP
>
>
> On 7/17/07, Craig Stevenson <cstevenson2000 at gmail.com<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=cstevenson2000@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> >
> >
> > Integrity and Virtue, I am starting to like the shorter listings better.
> >
> > Very good additions,
> > From them we should be ore likely to have the others, no?
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > On 7/17/07, Tea (Tuy-Phuong) LeTran <tealetran at gmail.com
> > <https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tealetran@gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Absolutely a great list and very sensible anh Shane. So is anh
> > > Craig. Sis Lien's addition is equally important. Thank you so much. I
> > > would like to mention one more trait that I sincerely believe a sensible
> > > leader should have and that is:
> > >
> > > * VIRTUE
> > >
> > > I hope this addition of mine is not a repetitive of number *7 on your
> > > list anh Shane.
> > >
> > > Be well and be safe everyone.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/15/07, Shane Wall <shane.wall at translingualexpress.com
> > > <https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=shane.wall@translingualexpress.com>>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Great list Craig.
> > > >
> > > > Here's my list, not in prioritized order because I consider all of
> > > > them
> > > > equally important, and some comments, thoughts or examples.
> > > >
> > > > *1. Willing to openly canvass and listen to all opinions, including
> > > > ones the leader may disagree with.*
> > > > Only by listening to all views and perspectives can the correct
> > > >
> > > > one be found.
> > > >
> > > > *2. Be totally committed to the welfare of the "entity" being led
> > > > as a
> > > > whole, not just elements within it.*
> > > > If only one section of the entity is cared for, human nature
> > > > will
> > > > quickly ensure that the entity disintegrates. This also means that
> > > > sometimes a leader must be willing to harm part of the whole in
> > > > order
> > > > for the whole to become or remain healthy. A true example is the
> > > > Ship
> > > > Captain whose ship has an uncontrolled fire in the engineroom. He
> > > > knows
> > > > there are 4 sailors still in the engineroom and 195 others safe. He
> > > > does
> > > > not know if the 4 are still alive or dead already. He orders the
> > > > engineroom sealed and the firefighting chemical Halon to be dumped
> > > > into
> > > > the compartment. Halon is lethally toxic when it reacts with fire
> > > > (that's part of how it works). He knows if the 4 are alive, he has
> > > > just
> > > > killed them. He knows if he does not extinguish the fire, he places
> > > > all
> > > > 195 others in jeopardy. I know this story is FACT because it
> > > > happened in
> > > > the Royal Australian Navy when I was still serving.
> > > >
> > > > *3. Not afraid to make the hard decisions, like the example above,
> > > > for
> > > > the good of the whole.*
> > > >
> > > > *4. Able to be self-critical and honest about mistakes or errors.*
> > > > The member of a sports team who gives their all and is defeated
> > > > by
> > > > their opponent because the coach put them in the wrong position or
> > > > gave
> > > > the wrong task is not to blame for losing the game, the coach who
> > > > put
> > > > there is. The coach must then be able to exonerate the player and
> > > > take
> > > > the blame.
> > > >
> > > > *5. Never asks another to do what he/she would not do themselves*,
> > > > a.k.a. lead by example or leading from the front.
> > > > This does not mean the leader has to actually participate, but
> > > > it
> > > > does mean that those being led must know that when placed in the
> > > > same
> > > > position, the leader DID do exactly what he/she is now asking others
> > > > to
> > > > do, so understands their plight.
> > > >
> > > > *6. Is cooperative rather than combative or manipulative.*
> > > >
> > > > *7. Honest, moral, ethical and upstanding with a sense of justice
> > > > and
> > > > what is "right".*
> > > > Nothing loses the respect of the led faster than some misdeed
> > > > by a
> > > > leader. Nonetheless, this does not mean the leader cannot have made
> > > > mistakes, (See 4. above), but just how they handle them. Another
> > > > true
> > > > story. On learning that their team leader was simply writing his own
> > > > reports based on his own presumptions and perceptions and not
> > > > analyzing
> > > > and compiling their results and reports as he should have done, the
> > > > team
> > > > simply stopped collecting the information and writing the reports -
> > > > not
> > > > a healthy situation for intelligence operators. When I took over the
> > > >
> > > > team, they were the worst, most demoralized team and the laughing
> > > > stock
> > > > of the Unit. Morale was deeper than Whale doo-doo!
> > > >
> > > > *8. Openly and equitably distributes and shares the benefits and
> > > > burdens.*
> > > > I've seen instances where everything is shared equally (a
> > > > Communist-style model) and others where things are shared according
> > > > to
> > > > pre-determined criteria or systems (a Capitalist-style model). From
> > > > my
> > > > (limited) experience, it doesn't seem to matter which method is
> > > > used,
> > > > rather that it is open and mutually agreed upon (See 6. above).
> > > >
> > > > *9. Deep understanding of the aspirations, wishes, needs and
> > > > desires of
> > > > the led.*
> > > > Without this understanding, no leader can ever hope to satisfy
> > > > these things for their followers.
> > > >
> > > > *10. Willingness to delegate responsibilities, reward success and
> > > > rectify the causes of failure.*
> > > > By letting people undertake important tasks, rewarding them
> > > > when
> > > > they succeed and helping rectify the reasons they may have failed, a
> > > > leader builds trust. From mutual trust comes teamwork. From teamwork
> > > > comes success. Any team-building guru will tell you that, or
> > > > something
> > > > similar.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, I don't remember where this comes from, but I remember a
> > > > definition of "Leadership":
> > > >
> > > > _*"The ability to make others willingly do what they otherwise do
> > > > not
> > > > want to do."*_
> > > >
> > > > Have a pleasant Sunday all.
> > > >
> > > > Shane
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Mr. Shane Wall
> > > > Principal,
> > > >
> > > > Trans Lingual Express
> > > > 120/14 Mai Thi Luu St,
> > > > P. Dakao, Q.1, HCMC,
> > > > Vietnam
> > > >
> > > > Mail: shane.wall at translingualexpress.com<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=shane.wall@translingualexpress.com>
> > > > Web: www.translingualexpress.com
> > > >
> > > > Mbl: +84 (090) 9484 753 (Anh) - Tel: +84 (8) 820 9143 (Viet)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Craig Stevenson wrote:
> > > > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > To answer the original question, traits of the (one) leader I have
> > > > in
> > > > > mind:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. great concern for his followers
> > > > > 2. willing to make the hard decisions
> > > > > 3. open, communicative, and energetic
> > > > > 4. includes the concerns/needs of others in his/her
> > > > decision-making
> > > > > process
> > > > > 5. Inspiring
> > > > > 6. dedicated
> > > > > 7. honest
> > > > > 8. hard-working
> > > > > 9. serves as a role model
> > > > >
> > > > > I listed these as they came to mind, not sure how to prioritize
> > > > them
> > > > > or if I should, perhaps they are prioritized. Perhaps they are
> > > > > intertwined and couldn't be separated fully, either to answer the
> > > > > question, or for the purposes of scientific study.
> > > > >
> > > > > Craig
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 7/14/07, *AD Marshall* < admarshall at gmail.com<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=admarshall@gmail.com>
> > > > > <mailto:admarshall at gmail.com<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=admarshall@gmail.com>>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thien oi,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your comments on group (or "community"?) development and
> > > > > maintenance (BeLow) are indeed intriguing, to say the least,
> > > > > especially your concluding comment that, "I [ie, you] must be
> > > > the
> > > > > one who takes the final decision".
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks indeed for yet again dispelling any notion i might have
> > > > > again entertained that living here might be becoming
> > > > monotonous or
> > > > > even predictable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Admittedly i must wonder if i'm witnessing or experiencing
> > > > some
> > > > > sort of communications disconnect or not. But assuming "not",
> > > > i
> > > > > would then wonder at what sorts of correlations might be found
> > > >
> > > > > between your comments and the incessant lament i've heard from
> > > > > people here who source Vietnamese software programmers for
> > > > > overseas work, ie, that Vietnamese programmers are remarkably
> > > > > team-work challenged.
> > > > >
> > > > > With warm wishes,
> > > > > AD Marshall
> > > > >
> > > > > On 7/15/07, *Tran Ba Thien* < tranbathien at gmail.com<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tranbathien@gmail.com>
> > > > > <mailto:tranbathien at gmail.com<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tranbathien@gmail.com>>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear anh Hoanh and CACC,
> > > > >
> > > > > First I am not very cynical on against the current social
> > > > > system of Vietnam.I feel ok with this circumstance and
> > > > > condition. It meets my needs and my values of democracy
> > > > and
> > > > > values of development. No, I never agree the system
> > > > totally.
> > > > > but I encounter not many problems to complain.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the role of a leader, what do I need to do for me and
> > > > for
> > > > > my members? It's very interesting question.
> > > > >
> > > > > -First I need to achieve the goal of my group as effective
> > > > as
> > > > > possible.
> > > > > -Then I need to set up friendship environment in our
> > > > group. I
> > > > > may name the activity as building up group culture. I need
> > > > to
> > > > > respect my member's idea, their values and their hopes. I
> > > > need
> > > > > to litsen to them and protect their reputation their
> > > > interests.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Every member and I need to understand that the success of
> > > > our
> > > > > group is from all not from some specific persons.
> > > > > -The group must give opportunities of developing to every
> > > > > member in equally and fairly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I must be the one who takes the final decision
> > > > >
> > > > > If I cannot apply one of the above indicators, I must
> > > > resign.
> > > > >
> > > > > best regards,
> > > > > Tran Ba Thien
> > > > > tranbathien at gmail.com<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tranbathien@gmail.com>
> > > > > <https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tranbathien@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > *From:* Tran Dinh Hoanh
> > > > > <https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tdhoanh@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *To:* vnbiz at vietlinks.net<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=vnbiz@vietlinks.net>
> > > > > <https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=vnbiz@vietlinks.net
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *Sent:* Sunday, July 15, 2007 5:45 AM
> > > > > *Subject:* Re: [Vnbiz] Leadership -- What are you
> > > > looking
> > > > > for in your leader?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Dear brother Thien & CACC,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the frank and emotional response, anh
> > > > Thien.
> > > > > And thanks for your frankness and courage. Frankness
> > > > and
> > > > > courage are very rare commodity anywhere in the world.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, I understand exactly what you are talking
> > > > > about. If there is any consolation, I have never been
> > > > able
> > > > > to choose anyone I really like either. When I was in
> > > > > Vietnam, of course, we had no choice. In the US, I
> > > > often
> > > > > did the task of choosing the least bad guy among the
> > > > bad
> > > > > guys. Hard to find good leaders. That is just the
> > > > nature
> > > > > of life.
> > > > >
> > > > > The issues you raise are not simple matters. As you
> > > > say,
> > > > > we cannot give the 3-yr-old kid the 7-yr-old-kid
> > > > > clothing. Democracy is a process, in which economic
> > > > and
> > > > > social development as well as the human relationship
> > > > among
> > > > > the citizens play a major role. Indeed, I think
> > > > democracy
> > > > > is not a destination, but a journey.
> > > > >
> > > > > These all are matters close to my heart. But we will
> > > > > develop this thread about democracy, choosing leaders
> > > > and
> > > > > citizen responsibilities in the future, so that we
> > > > don't
> > > > > confuse our current discussion: What is your own idea
> > > > of
> > > > > leadership?
> > > > >
> > > > > So brother Thien, assuming that you don't really care
> > > > > about other leaders because you have no right to
> > > > really
> > > > > choose the leaders you like and everything is imposed
> > > > from
> > > > > above, I agree with you absolutely and I am
> > > > sympathetic
> > > > > with you. So let me switch the angle a little and ask
> > > > you
> > > > > this question: You must be the leader of someone, be
> > > > that
> > > > > your younger brother or sister, your children, your
> > > > > students, or someone you have been mentoring. In
> > > > > such capacity as that person's leader, what do you
> > > > think
> > > > > you need in order to to fulfill your job?
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't care about other guys. I care about
> > > > you. What
> > > > > your idea of leadership is? What do you demand of
> > > > > yourself as a leader of someone?
> > > > >
> > > > > Have a great day!
> > > > >
> > > > > Hoanh
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 7/13/07, *Tran Ba Thien* < tranbathien at gmail.com<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tranbathien@gmail.com>
> > > > > <https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tranbathien@gmail.com
> > > > >>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear anh Hoanh,
> > > > >
> > > > > for the question of yours, I tell you my truth.
> > > > That's
> > > > > what I really performed in every election in
> > > > Vietnam.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have no choice, nothing at all. My family
> > > > members
> > > > > and I used to meet together then asked who might
> > > > have
> > > > > time to go voting. Then we selected someone. The
> > > > > person would take our voter card to go to the
> > > > voting
> > > > > place. The person would have no choice at all.
> > > > He/she
> > > > > deleted some candidates accidentally then voted.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's not my joke story. But It's my real.
> > > > Sometime, I
> > > > > don't care the percentage of who have real choice
> > > > and
> > > > > who have no choice in election. A few months ago,
> > > > in
> > > > > the voting day for congress election, my friend
> > > > was
> > > > > very busy. No one of his family could go voting.
> > > > then
> > > > > his "to truong dan pho" came and asked his family
> > > > gave
> > > > > him their voter cards. He did voting for them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry for this story. I just want to tell you the
> > > > truth.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my real life, I really don't have opportunity
> > > > to
> > > > > choose and to vote my leader. The position is set
> > > > up
> > > > > from above. But if you want to know my knowledge
> > > > about
> > > > > how to choose my leaders, I can tell you many
> > > > things.
> > > > > All of them come from my theory, my dream and
> > > > nothing
> > > > > from my real. You might be surprised. I can
> > > > understand
> > > > > your reaction. For me, my choice is not to select
> > > > how
> > > > > to perform my democracy but what I can gain from
> > > > this
> > > > > type of democracy. I feel ok. This type of society
> > > > can
> > > > > give me enough opportunity to get paid, to get
> > > > food
> > > > > and that's all.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the future I may change it. Yes, it's very
> > > > simple.
> > > > > When the boy is 3 year you just give him 3-year
> > > > > clothes. When he is 10 you need to give him
> > > > 10-year
> > > > > clothes. You don't need to give 3-year boy a
> > > > 10-year
> > > > > clothes because it cannot meet his needs. Then the
> > > >
> > > > > type of democracy is the same. I think we have
> > > > talked
> > > > > about definition of democracy many times. In this
> > > > > issues, I don't want to talk about democracy but
> > > > > leadership. I have no choice in electing. Then I
> > > > > cannot give you a correct answer. I am very
> > > > serious. I
> > > > > understand my answer doesn't meet your question
> > > > > correctly. But according to your words, I try to
> > > > give
> > > > > my best.
> > > > >
> > > > > best regards,
> > > > > Tran Ba Thien
> > > > > tranbathien at gmail.com<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tranbathien@gmail.com>
> > > > > <https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=tranbathien@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
> > > > > Washington DC
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tea (Tuy-Phuong) LeTran
> > >
> > > Form is not different from Void, Void is not different from Form
> > > Form is Void, Void is Form
> > > (The Great-Wisdom-Beyond-Wisdom Heart Sutra)
> > >
> > > Sa('c ba^'t di. Kho^ng, Kho^ng ba^'t di. Sa('c
> > > Sa('c tu+'c thi. Kho^ng, Kho^ng tu+'c thi. Sa('c
> > > ( Ba't Nha~ Ta^m Kinh )
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> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe, please contact admins at
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> > or http://groups-beta.google.com/group/VNBIZforum/
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Tea (Tuy-Phuong) LeTran
>
> Form is not different from Void, Void is not different from Form
> Form is Void, Void is Form
> (The Great-Wisdom-Beyond-Wisdom Heart Sutra)
>
> Sa('c ba^'t di. Kho^ng, Kho^ng ba^'t di. Sa('c
> Sa('c tu+'c thi. Kho^ng, Kho^ng tu+'c thi. Sa('c
> ( Ba't Nha~ Ta^m Kinh )
> _______________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, please contact admins at
> vnbizadmin at vietlinks.net<https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&to=vnbizadmin@vietlinks.net>
> Info at http://mail.saigon.com/mailman/listinfo/vnbiz
> Archive at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vnbiz/
> or http://groups-beta.google.com/group/VNBIZforum/
> or http://mail.saigon.com/pipermail/vnbiz
>
>
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