[Vnbiz] Taking care of our students

[Rajakumar sankar]

Instead of getting frustated over the education system which is not allowing
students to have say over their education. I think students clubs can be
formed so that student can spent some time what they are intrested in
........theater, social service, debates  and other extra curricular
acticvities. I would say parents, teacher and  students meeting also play a
great role in treating students very humanly and participate in the
implementation of the curriculam.

I just thought to add to what as been discussed,

regards

rajakumar


On 1/11/07, Tram Dang <tdang2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
>
>
>
> As an educator myself, I would like to add my bits to some of the points
> mentioned by anh Hoanh and chi Thu Huong:
>
> 1.  Students' rights:  Students certainly should be entiled to some
> rights, such as the right to be treated with respect from instructors and
> staff, the right to use school facilities, the right to a safe and
> educational environment, the right to equal treatment, the right to file for
> grievances, the right to evaluate instuctors and have their evaluative
> comments be taken seriously by instructors/administrators, etc.  For those
> types of issues, it's important that students have a strong voice.
> However, I think it's a little tricky to talk about students' rights within
> issues concerning instructions and curriculum.  I'm afraid too much student
> influence in this realm would only create more confusion and frustration for
> everyone.  Reason:  they don't have a broad understand of the field yet,
> (that is why they are still students in the field), and so without a broad
> understanding of the field, how would they know what is important for them
> to learn?
> Students should have the right to tell teachers HOW they learn best (their
> learning style) so that teachers can tailor their teaching techniques to fit
> the students' needs, but students should not have the right to decide WHAT
> they should learn.
> The fact that students are still novice in their fields is only half the
> reason why they should not decide what they should learn.  The other half of
> the reason has to do with consistency.  WHAT students learn, or
> the curriculum, needs to be consistent.  It's important to have consistency
> between student to student, class to class, and school to school even.
>
> Having said all that however, I would to add that there can be a
> compromise in the curriculum where students are allowed to have fair share
> in decided what they shoud learn, this is called "electives".  For every
> major, there are certain number of classes that everyone's required to take
> and about 2 or 3 classes where they have a choice of picking something they
> like from a list of classes.
>
> 5.   Need to learn life skills:  I think this is one of the biggest
> misfortunes in our educational system in Vietnam.  It's not "real" enough.
> I think adding more hands-on activities lwould give students a more
> realistic feel of what it's like beyond the classroom walls.  Activities
> like job shaddowing, nternships, requiring students to volunteer at a job
> site, fieldtrips/visits to a job site, guest speakers from various fields,
> etc.   Off all these activities, my personal favorite is volunteering or
> getting an internship at where you hope to work.  Nothing beats experience.
>
>
> Just some thoughts... wish everyone a productive day!
>
> Tram
>
>
> On 1/6/07, Tran Dinh Hoanh <tdhoanh at gmail.com > wrote:
> >
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> > Dear sis. Thu Huong & CACC,
> >
> > Thanks for the great message, Thu Huong.  You have great leadership
> > ability.  You think like a leader.  Keep working at it, and you will
> > be a great leader, sister.
> >
> > Let me go over the points Thu Huong mentions:
> >
> > 1.  Students' rights:  In our Vietnamese culture, if two persons sit
> > together, the one with higher rank gets all the rights, the one with
> > lower rank gets no rights.  That is true, from family, to school, to
> > government.  So if you are a student (under your teacher), what rights
> > do you have?  Why brother asking?  :-)
> >
> > Actually, this is a deep cultural problem that needs to be solved by
> > our collective conscious efforts. When I teach a class, I always let
> > my students evaluate my performance at the end of the course.  If each
> > school lets students evaluate teachers like that (and use this
> > evaluation result as a part of the overall evaluation of the teacher),
> > the students will gain more respect from the teachers.
> >
> > Each school should also has students run things.  In the US, each
> > school has an academic magazine which is top-rank professional
> > magazine in the field called"Review" such as "Harvard Law Review."
> > These Reviews are always run by students (with a professor as
> > advisor).
> >
> > My feeling is that you  students should not wait for the school to
> > give you rights (because the waiting may last 30 years!).  You just
> > take charge of things and start the kind of project you love.  As the
> > students demonstrate their leadership ability, the entire culture will
> > gradually change to channel more rights and responsibilities to
> > students.
> >
> > 2.  English:  Every thoughtful, Thu Huong.  Yes, someone should do
> > something to motivate students into using more English. For the next
> > 50 years, the one single factor that determines our nation's progress
> > is not politics, nor economics, nor education, but English.  I believe
> > that English should be at the top of the list of all development
> > projects,  all political agendas and all economic planning of Vietnam
> > for the next 50 years.  Everything else is running relatively well in
> > Vietnam so we don't have to worry about them too much.  We can just
> > focus our attention on making English the top priority, then we will
> > advance by leaps and bounds.
> >
> > 3.  Lack of teamwork and team spirit among students.  That's
> > absolutely true.  In our culture, students are supposed to do work
> > alone, probably starting from the time of Confucian education
> > thousands of years ago.  We need to change this.
> >
> > 4. Entertainment:  Lack of healthy and beneficial entertainment.
> > Absolutely true.  I am thinking that Vietnam needs to to put a lot of
> > sport activities into curriculum.  As well as charitable activities.
> > These activities can make people very happy, which is the purpose of
> > entertainment.
> >
> > 5.  The need to learn life skills. True, schools don't teach these at
> > all.  We just have to teach ourselves.
> >
> > These all are very good points, Thu Huong.  And probably one can cite
> > even more issues.
> >
> > The key point here is:  What can the students to do help themselves?
> >
> > I'd like to focus on the words "Help themselves."  We need to promote
> > and practice the "self help" concept, so that everyone, every student
> > in the country, will start moving to help him/herself.
> >
> > Thu Huong has thought of some key points for a system of working.  I
> > would like to add in some fundamental considerations;
> >
> > 1.  Whatever we do, make sure that the activities are fun-filled and
> > enjoyable.  That is the secret of success.  If the activities become a
> > kind of stressful work, we won't last long.
> >
> > 2.  Don't think about a lot of people.  Think about a very small group
> > of people, like 3 friends -- three musketeers -- All for One One for
> > All :-)  If you have two other friends to work with you in a project,
> > eventually the project may attract thousands.  (Note: Avoid thinking
> > about 100 students to start.  Just focus on the core group of three.
> > The hundreds and the thousands will come naturally, without the need
> > to think much about them).
> >
> > 3. Pick a kind of activity you would like to do, find 2 more friends
> > with the same interest, then 3 of you start a club ( cau lac bo).
> > Every thing else will come from there.
> >
> > 4.  Just do the work right away, and try to avoid things that require
> > approval, permission, formal procedures, etc.  These procedural things
> > are really not necessary at the early stage of any
> > project/organization.  They just slow you down unnecessarily.
> >
> > Example: If you would like to promote English.  Get two the friends
> > and talk about doing "The CSE Club"  (CSE stands for College Students'
> > English Club).  Then start weekly activities and invite friends to
> > join in the activities, such as:  A one-day English-only picnic (in
> > which only English is allowed to be spoken), an English-only gathering
> > at a coffee shop, a reading session in which every shares their
> > writings (poetry, short story, commentary, etc.), a presentation on
> > typical English errors, regular presentation in English on life-skills
> > (by members or speakers invited from outside), a website to promote
> > English, etc.  If you keep thinking up interesting activities,
> > eventually the club will grow very large, and "branch clubs" may pop
> > up in other cities too.
> >
> > The concept of "advisers" are important.  You may want experienced
> > people to be your advisers (and Shane, for example).  Advisers not
> > only share experience with you, but they also may provide the
> > necessary contacts for support.  (And if you do an English club, I
> > would be willing to serve as your advisor, if you would like me too).
> >
> > The same thing would hold true for any kind of activity.   If you want
> > to promote swimming for health, do a "swimming club."  Or "a clean
> > dancing club" where people do dancing together without drugs and booze
> > (or a Salsa Dancing Club and invite chi Ziu Thuong in to be advisor
> > :-)
> >
> > Don't think too much.  If you feel like doing it, then just do it.
> > Then you will see the roads, and you will see problems, a few each
> > day.  Then you will just work around your problems and keep moving.
> > And before you know it, the inexperienced you will have disappeared
> > and the expert you will come into existence.
> >
> > You never run a project by knowing much about that project in advance,
> > especially when you are doing things other people have not done
> > before.  You just go into it half-blind, and you will see clearer as
> > you're in deeper.  Remember what chi Dieu Anh said about her
> > project--Had her staff known about the difficult road they would have
> > to travel, none of them would have taken the job?  All great projects
> > are run like that.  We all come into our projects with only some very
> > general and sometimes vague ideas.  We all struggle through our
> > projects and through struggling we become great leaders.
> >
> > So, just move. Don't worry too much about problems and mistakes.  You
> > will make plenty of mistakes before you can run things well. If you
> > start to learn how to ride bicycle, you know that you will bang your
> > knees and your head and scratch your arms and legs a number of times
> > before you can maneuver your bicycle like an expert.  Life is like
> > that.  So, don't worry about doing something stupid, because you will
> > do something stupid.  What's the big deal?  :-)
> >
> > Another thing you want to keep in mind, that in this forum we have may
> > good people, try to get them to support you.  Thanh Than & Hong Nhung,
> > two very experienced ladies in Saigon, have just finished university
> > this year. They still have much student blood in their veins.   We
> > also have university professors in the forum who may be able to lend
> > you lot of support.  Always keep thinking about your brothers and
> > sisters and friends around who may support you.  That kind of thinking
> > keep you warm and less lonely (because being a leader is a very lonely
> > business at times).
> >
> > Keep brainstorming and planning, sister.  I am with you. We are with
> > you.
> >
> > Great day, Thu Huong and all.
> >
> > Hoanh
> > __________
> >
> > On 1/5/07, huong dang thu <hdangthu at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > >
> > > Dear my new brothers and sisters :),
> > > First, let me thank you, so much. Scarcely in my life am I so much
> > > warmly welcomed!  Not many one told me such encouraging things:
> > > "Please feel at home and share your heart and mind with us", or "Don't
> >
> > > hesitate to raise questions, to tell us your opinion and share
> > > whatever you find interesting with us." Now, I truly feel this is a
> > > family where I can let my mind and heart open. I promise that as long
> > > as my bro/sis listened to me, I would share my entire mind.
> > > Thanks for reminding me "Everyone needs to stand up and take charge of
> >
> > > his/her life, and then ask for help". I will keep it in mind.
> > > And as you said "the students move first", here I want to share with
> > > you about the problems and the solving (in my opinion) in university
> > > students' lives.
> > > But let me talk about the problems first.
> > > First of all, it's about students' studying. It's weak. And it may
> > > attribute to many reasons. But, the serious reason in my view is that
> > > the low awareness of students' RIGHTS. We (the students) don't really
> > > know what we can do (can we request, contribute…?) in our school. I
> > > think students should know their rights in university. That we have
> > > right to study what we think we need for our future, but not only
> > > study what the teachers give us.  That we have right to protect our
> > > ideas, opinions, and they are appreciated. That teacher can't reject
> > > our ideas. The problem is only if our reasons are vigorous enough to
> > > protect what we support. So, the thing we should do is not to learn by
> > > heart the might-appear-in-the-exam things, but the true knowledge of
> > > our major. I think this is a basic problem of students' studying in
> > > our current schools.
> > > Besides that, English really matters. When I come to my school, every
> > > 10 students, there are 7 ones ask me: "where do you study English?" or
> >
> > > "what is your tip in studying English?" English is a very true thirst
> > > in university. But, this also a problem for that students don't
> > > understand that English is a tool for their studying, to read or do
> > > research on English stuff (which provides them with many more info,
> > > knowledge), students regard English as debt have to pay for school if
> > > they want to take their certificates. This pressure effects on
> > > students' way and attitude towards studying English. English becomes a
> >
> > > big problem to most of the students.
> > > Another problem, in studying and working, students still do in
> > > individual manner. We usually don't have the strong connection with
> > > others. Students in my school are from many different parts of our
> > > country. The difference of culture makes students stay somehow far
> > > away from each others, especially in some Northern provinces
> > > community. Students from Nghe An, Ha Tinh gather together, students
> > > from Thanh Hoa gather together…  They lacks of skill in integrating to
> > > new communities. I think many of them feel truly lonely and hard in
> > > life. In steed, I think it will be much better if students are
> > > provided with working in team skill, and accepting the difference
> > > view. They will feel better; then have more time and more chance in
> > > improving their studying. So that, integrating skill is also a big
> > > problem.
> > > It's about students' studying. But, I also pretty care for our
> > > entertainment. It's also so important. It's very true that we have
> > > free time. But we don't really know how to use it. We choose various
> > > ways to do with our free time. Unfortunately, the current things
> > > attract us the most are mobile phones, modern motorcycle, sex movies,
> > > cigarettes … This forms a low culture in students' community.
> > > Actually, there are some activities of Doan Thanh Nien or Hoi Sinh
> > > Vien. But these activities are usually run by students who are not
> > > provided with skills. So they usually lack of professional manners.
> > > And with all spirit and enthusiasm, they run the activities by
> > > themselves, which means the activities in school are good or bad
> > > usually mainly depends on their leader only. If the leader is ok, its
> > > activities are ok. If not, not ok. They don't have clear goals to
> > > pursue. And they don't have plans to support the next generations.
> > > That's why the activities in school don't truly persuade me. But we
> > > always need things to do. So that, I think we should think about the
> > > helpful activities for students in their free time. But, it's no one
> > > else but students themselves choose it.
> > > Things above are problems that I think they are problematic. To solve
> > > such these things is not easy. And I think they are still so common
> > > and large. But this is what I suggest: providing training skills
> > > courses for students.
> > > 1.      Choose the certain students ( e.g.: 100 students in the
> > > International Law department in Law university)
> > > 2.      Provide them with many talks about their future and career:
> > the
> > > need of society for lawyers in the next 5 years, how things change
> > > when VN joined WTO, what the professional manners of the present
> > > students are, what skill/knowledge students should prepare for
> > > themselves right now?....
> > > 3.      Do research on students: "what skills do you need to improve
> > > yourselves in studying and life?" : leadership, making representation
> > > skill, thinking creatively skill, balancing life skill, relaxing
> > > skill…?
> > > 4.      Based on results of the research, providing training skills
> > courses
> > > for students. After these courses, students should find their own
> > > projects/topics interest them.
> > > 5.      By themselves (and consultancy of the older), put their
> > projects
> > > into practice.
> > > 6.      Estimate the results. Find the best students, keep them on the
> > > following programs, and train them as the helpers for guiding the next
> > > generations.
> > > I hope that by the way we share ideas to each others (the older
> > > provide students talk about their experience, their need, their
> > > success…, the students provide the older their true thinking, their
> > > needs…), and by the way we provide students with training skills
> > > courses, the training providers, the business and the students will
> > > get closer, make the studying and training process more effective.
> > > I think that through the talks, we will gradually learn about our
> > > rights in school. and through the courses, we will start to practice
> > > what we learn. And through working with own our projects (may be very
> > > small, trivial), we will start to practice the skills we get from the
> > > courses. Now, when we are prepared with skills and abilities, we
> > > ourselves will raise our own projects to solve our own problems. E.g.:
> > > I care for studying English problem in school, I will run the project
> > > to provide helpful English courses for students, my friend interests
> > > in student social activities, she will run a project on her interest….
> > > Anyway, I think that it's completely not easy to sow the positive
> > > thinking in students right away. Not many one treats them well. It's
> > > so true that in their daily lives, they have to fight with many
> > > hardships and struggles. So it will be so hard, as bro Hoanh said, "to
> >
> > > know how to make life choices, how to think with our heart and our
> > > mind, how to apply different-and-often-conflicting principles in our
> > > life--compassion, honesty, non-rejudiced, upholding our own values
> > > while respecting our neighbor's values, how to make peace and win
> > > friends, etc." They are truly what we have to overcome everyday now.
> > > And, to be successful, the project has to attract the true
> > > participation of students. They will love what they do. They should
> > > know that they are listened, cared and served, not imposed.
> > > They are just my innocent and simple thinking. I think they are just
> > > theory. But that's all as much as I can think of. So plz give me your
> > > hands.
> > > Last, I want to say that I pretty don't know how to show my very very
> > > very great happiness to be here. I felt like receiving a million roses
> >
> > > to receive the email welcome me :) . So, once again, thanks for your
> > > very warm words in every emails.
> > > Wish my bro and sis smile,
> > > HeO
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
> > Attorney of Law
> > Washington DC
> > _______________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe, please contact admins at
> > vnbizadmin at vietlinks.net
> > Info at http://mail.saigon.com/mailman/listinfo/vnbiz
> > Archive at
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vnbiz/
> > or http://groups-beta.google.com/group/VNBIZforum/
> > or http://mail.saigon.com/pipermail/vnbiz
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, please contact admins at
> vnbizadmin at vietlinks.net
> Info at http://mail.saigon.com/mailman/listinfo/vnbiz
> Archive at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vnbiz/
> or http://groups-beta.google.com/group/VNBIZforum/
> or http://mail.saigon.com/pipermail/vnbiz
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.saigon.com/pipermail/vnbiz/attachments/20070111/f40dab08/attachment.html