[Vnbiz] Taking care of our students

[Tram Dang]

As an educator myself, I would like to add my bits to some of the points
mentioned by anh Hoanh and chi Thu Huong:

1.  Students' rights:  Students certainly should be entiled to some rights,
such as the right to be treated with respect from instructors and staff, the
right to use school facilities, the right to a safe and educational
environment, the right to equal treatment, the right to file for grievances,
the right to evaluate instuctors and have their evaluative comments be taken
seriously by instructors/administrators, etc.  For those types
of issues, it's important that students have a strong voice.  However, I
think it's a little tricky to talk about students' rights within
issues concerning instructions and curriculum.  I'm afraid too much student
influence in this realm would only create more confusion and frustration for
everyone.  Reason:  they don't have a broad understand of the field yet,
(that is why they are still students in the field), and so without a broad
understanding of the field, how would they know what is important for them
to learn?
Students should have the right to tell teachers HOW they learn best (their
learning style) so that teachers can tailor their teaching techniques to fit
the students' needs, but students should not have the right to decide WHAT
they should learn.
The fact that students are still novice in their fields is only half the
reason why they should not decide what they should learn.  The other half of
the reason has to do with consistency.  WHAT students learn, or
the curriculum, needs to be consistent.  It's important to have consistency
between student to student, class to class, and school to school even.

Having said all that however, I would to add that there can be a compromise
in the curriculum where students are allowed to have fair share in decided
what they shoud learn, this is called "electives".  For every major, there
are certain number of classes that everyone's required to take and about 2
or 3 classes where they have a choice of picking something they like from a
list of classes.

5.   Need to learn life skills:  I think this is one of the biggest
misfortunes in our educational system in Vietnam.  It's not "real" enough.
I think adding more hands-on activities lwould give students a more
realistic feel of what it's like beyond the classroom walls.  Activities
like job shaddowing, nternships, requiring students to volunteer at a job
site, fieldtrips/visits to a job site, guest speakers from various fields,
etc.   Off all these activities, my personal favorite is volunteering or
getting an internship at where you hope to work.  Nothing beats experience.


Just some thoughts... wish everyone a productive day!

Tram


On 1/6/07, Tran Dinh Hoanh <tdhoanh at gmail.com > wrote:
>
> [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
>
> Dear sis. Thu Huong & CACC,
>
> Thanks for the great message, Thu Huong.  You have great leadership
> ability.  You think like a leader.  Keep working at it, and you will
> be a great leader, sister.
>
> Let me go over the points Thu Huong mentions:
>
> 1.  Students' rights:  In our Vietnamese culture, if two persons sit
> together, the one with higher rank gets all the rights, the one with
> lower rank gets no rights.  That is true, from family, to school, to
> government.  So if you are a student (under your teacher), what rights
> do you have?  Why brother asking?  :-)
>
> Actually, this is a deep cultural problem that needs to be solved by
> our collective conscious efforts. When I teach a class, I always let
> my students evaluate my performance at the end of the course.  If each
> school lets students evaluate teachers like that (and use this
> evaluation result as a part of the overall evaluation of the teacher),
> the students will gain more respect from the teachers.
>
> Each school should also has students run things.  In the US, each
> school has an academic magazine which is top-rank professional
> magazine in the field called"Review" such as "Harvard Law Review."
> These Reviews are always run by students (with a professor as
> advisor).
>
> My feeling is that you  students should not wait for the school to
> give you rights (because the waiting may last 30 years!).  You just
> take charge of things and start the kind of project you love.  As the
> students demonstrate their leadership ability, the entire culture will
> gradually change to channel more rights and responsibilities to
> students.
>
> 2.  English:  Every thoughtful, Thu Huong.  Yes, someone should do
> something to motivate students into using more English. For the next
> 50 years, the one single factor that determines our nation's progress
> is not politics, nor economics, nor education, but English.  I believe
> that English should be at the top of the list of all development
> projects,  all political agendas and all economic planning of Vietnam
> for the next 50 years.  Everything else is running relatively well in
> Vietnam so we don't have to worry about them too much.  We can just
> focus our attention on making English the top priority, then we will
> advance by leaps and bounds.
>
> 3.  Lack of teamwork and team spirit among students.  That's
> absolutely true.  In our culture, students are supposed to do work
> alone, probably starting from the time of Confucian education
> thousands of years ago.  We need to change this.
>
> 4. Entertainment:  Lack of healthy and beneficial entertainment.
> Absolutely true.  I am thinking that Vietnam needs to to put a lot of
> sport activities into curriculum.  As well as charitable activities.
> These activities can make people very happy, which is the purpose of
> entertainment.
>
> 5.  The need to learn life skills. True, schools don't teach these at
> all.  We just have to teach ourselves.
>
> These all are very good points, Thu Huong.  And probably one can cite
> even more issues.
>
> The key point here is:  What can the students to do help themselves?
>
> I'd like to focus on the words "Help themselves."  We need to promote
> and practice the "self help" concept, so that everyone, every student
> in the country, will start moving to help him/herself.
>
> Thu Huong has thought of some key points for a system of working.  I
> would like to add in some fundamental considerations;
>
> 1.  Whatever we do, make sure that the activities are fun-filled and
> enjoyable.  That is the secret of success.  If the activities become a
> kind of stressful work, we won't last long.
>
> 2.  Don't think about a lot of people.  Think about a very small group
> of people, like 3 friends -- three musketeers -- All for One One for
> All :-)  If you have two other friends to work with you in a project,
> eventually the project may attract thousands.  (Note: Avoid thinking
> about 100 students to start.  Just focus on the core group of three.
> The hundreds and the thousands will come naturally, without the need
> to think much about them).
>
> 3. Pick a kind of activity you would like to do, find 2 more friends
> with the same interest, then 3 of you start a club ( cau lac bo).
> Every thing else will come from there.
>
> 4.  Just do the work right away, and try to avoid things that require
> approval, permission, formal procedures, etc.  These procedural things
> are really not necessary at the early stage of any
> project/organization.  They just slow you down unnecessarily.
>
> Example: If you would like to promote English.  Get two the friends
> and talk about doing "The CSE Club"  (CSE stands for College Students'
> English Club).  Then start weekly activities and invite friends to
> join in the activities, such as:  A one-day English-only picnic (in
> which only English is allowed to be spoken), an English-only gathering
> at a coffee shop, a reading session in which every shares their
> writings (poetry, short story, commentary, etc.), a presentation on
> typical English errors, regular presentation in English on life-skills
> (by members or speakers invited from outside), a website to promote
> English, etc.  If you keep thinking up interesting activities,
> eventually the club will grow very large, and "branch clubs" may pop
> up in other cities too.
>
> The concept of "advisers" are important.  You may want experienced
> people to be your advisers (and Shane, for example).  Advisers not
> only share experience with you, but they also may provide the
> necessary contacts for support.  (And if you do an English club, I
> would be willing to serve as your advisor, if you would like me too).
>
> The same thing would hold true for any kind of activity.   If you want
> to promote swimming for health, do a "swimming club."  Or "a clean
> dancing club" where people do dancing together without drugs and booze
> (or a Salsa Dancing Club and invite chi Ziu Thuong in to be advisor
> :-)
>
> Don't think too much.  If you feel like doing it, then just do it.
> Then you will see the roads, and you will see problems, a few each
> day.  Then you will just work around your problems and keep moving.
> And before you know it, the inexperienced you will have disappeared
> and the expert you will come into existence.
>
> You never run a project by knowing much about that project in advance,
> especially when you are doing things other people have not done
> before.  You just go into it half-blind, and you will see clearer as
> you're in deeper.  Remember what chi Dieu Anh said about her
> project--Had her staff known about the difficult road they would have
> to travel, none of them would have taken the job?  All great projects
> are run like that.  We all come into our projects with only some very
> general and sometimes vague ideas.  We all struggle through our
> projects and through struggling we become great leaders.
>
> So, just move. Don't worry too much about problems and mistakes.  You
> will make plenty of mistakes before you can run things well. If you
> start to learn how to ride bicycle, you know that you will bang your
> knees and your head and scratch your arms and legs a number of times
> before you can maneuver your bicycle like an expert.  Life is like
> that.  So, don't worry about doing something stupid, because you will
> do something stupid.  What's the big deal?  :-)
>
> Another thing you want to keep in mind, that in this forum we have may
> good people, try to get them to support you.  Thanh Than & Hong Nhung,
> two very experienced ladies in Saigon, have just finished university
> this year. They still have much student blood in their veins.   We
> also have university professors in the forum who may be able to lend
> you lot of support.  Always keep thinking about your brothers and
> sisters and friends around who may support you.  That kind of thinking
> keep you warm and less lonely (because being a leader is a very lonely
> business at times).
>
> Keep brainstorming and planning, sister.  I am with you. We are with you.
>
> Great day, Thu Huong and all.
>
> Hoanh
> __________
>
> On 1/5/07, huong dang thu <hdangthu at gmail.com > wrote:
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> > Dear my new brothers and sisters :),
> > First, let me thank you, so much. Scarcely in my life am I so much
> > warmly welcomed!  Not many one told me such encouraging things:
> > "Please feel at home and share your heart and mind with us", or "Don't
> > hesitate to raise questions, to tell us your opinion and share
> > whatever you find interesting with us." Now, I truly feel this is a
> > family where I can let my mind and heart open. I promise that as long
> > as my bro/sis listened to me, I would share my entire mind.
> > Thanks for reminding me "Everyone needs to stand up and take charge of
> > his/her life, and then ask for help". I will keep it in mind.
> > And as you said "the students move first", here I want to share with
> > you about the problems and the solving (in my opinion) in university
> > students' lives.
> > But let me talk about the problems first.
> > First of all, it's about students' studying. It's weak. And it may
> > attribute to many reasons. But, the serious reason in my view is that
> > the low awareness of students' RIGHTS. We (the students) don't really
> > know what we can do (can we request, contribute…?) in our school. I
> > think students should know their rights in university. That we have
> > right to study what we think we need for our future, but not only
> > study what the teachers give us.  That we have right to protect our
> > ideas, opinions, and they are appreciated. That teacher can't reject
> > our ideas. The problem is only if our reasons are vigorous enough to
> > protect what we support. So, the thing we should do is not to learn by
> > heart the might-appear-in-the-exam things, but the true knowledge of
> > our major. I think this is a basic problem of students' studying in
> > our current schools.
> > Besides that, English really matters. When I come to my school, every
> > 10 students, there are 7 ones ask me: "where do you study English?" or
> > "what is your tip in studying English?" English is a very true thirst
> > in university. But, this also a problem for that students don't
> > understand that English is a tool for their studying, to read or do
> > research on English stuff (which provides them with many more info,
> > knowledge), students regard English as debt have to pay for school if
> > they want to take their certificates. This pressure effects on
> > students' way and attitude towards studying English. English becomes a
> > big problem to most of the students.
> > Another problem, in studying and working, students still do in
> > individual manner. We usually don't have the strong connection with
> > others. Students in my school are from many different parts of our
> > country. The difference of culture makes students stay somehow far
> > away from each others, especially in some Northern provinces
> > community. Students from Nghe An, Ha Tinh gather together, students
> > from Thanh Hoa gather together…  They lacks of skill in integrating to
> > new communities. I think many of them feel truly lonely and hard in
> > life. In steed, I think it will be much better if students are
> > provided with working in team skill, and accepting the difference
> > view. They will feel better; then have more time and more chance in
> > improving their studying. So that, integrating skill is also a big
> > problem.
> > It's about students' studying. But, I also pretty care for our
> > entertainment. It's also so important. It's very true that we have
> > free time. But we don't really know how to use it. We choose various
> > ways to do with our free time. Unfortunately, the current things
> > attract us the most are mobile phones, modern motorcycle, sex movies,
> > cigarettes … This forms a low culture in students' community.
> > Actually, there are some activities of Doan Thanh Nien or Hoi Sinh
> > Vien. But these activities are usually run by students who are not
> > provided with skills. So they usually lack of professional manners.
> > And with all spirit and enthusiasm, they run the activities by
> > themselves, which means the activities in school are good or bad
> > usually mainly depends on their leader only. If the leader is ok, its
> > activities are ok. If not, not ok. They don't have clear goals to
> > pursue. And they don't have plans to support the next generations.
> > That's why the activities in school don't truly persuade me. But we
> > always need things to do. So that, I think we should think about the
> > helpful activities for students in their free time. But, it's no one
> > else but students themselves choose it.
> > Things above are problems that I think they are problematic. To solve
> > such these things is not easy. And I think they are still so common
> > and large. But this is what I suggest: providing training skills
> > courses for students.
> > 1.      Choose the certain students ( e.g.: 100 students in the
> > International Law department in Law university)
> > 2.      Provide them with many talks about their future and career: the
> > need of society for lawyers in the next 5 years, how things change
> > when VN joined WTO, what the professional manners of the present
> > students are, what skill/knowledge students should prepare for
> > themselves right now?....
> > 3.      Do research on students: "what skills do you need to improve
> > yourselves in studying and life?" : leadership, making representation
> > skill, thinking creatively skill, balancing life skill, relaxing
> > skill…?
> > 4.      Based on results of the research, providing training skills
> courses
> > for students. After these courses, students should find their own
> > projects/topics interest them.
> > 5.      By themselves (and consultancy of the older), put their projects
>
> > into practice.
> > 6.      Estimate the results. Find the best students, keep them on the
> > following programs, and train them as the helpers for guiding the next
> > generations.
> > I hope that by the way we share ideas to each others (the older
> > provide students talk about their experience, their need, their
> > success…, the students provide the older their true thinking, their
> > needs…), and by the way we provide students with training skills
> > courses, the training providers, the business and the students will
> > get closer, make the studying and training process more effective.
> > I think that through the talks, we will gradually learn about our
> > rights in school. and through the courses, we will start to practice
> > what we learn. And through working with own our projects (may be very
> > small, trivial), we will start to practice the skills we get from the
> > courses. Now, when we are prepared with skills and abilities, we
> > ourselves will raise our own projects to solve our own problems. E.g.:
> > I care for studying English problem in school, I will run the project
> > to provide helpful English courses for students, my friend interests
> > in student social activities, she will run a project on her interest….
> > Anyway, I think that it's completely not easy to sow the positive
> > thinking in students right away. Not many one treats them well. It's
> > so true that in their daily lives, they have to fight with many
> > hardships and struggles. So it will be so hard, as bro Hoanh said, "to
> > know how to make life choices, how to think with our heart and our
> > mind, how to apply different-and-often-conflicting principles in our
> > life--compassion, honesty, non-rejudiced, upholding our own values
> > while respecting our neighbor's values, how to make peace and win
> > friends, etc." They are truly what we have to overcome everyday now.
> > And, to be successful, the project has to attract the true
> > participation of students. They will love what they do. They should
> > know that they are listened, cared and served, not imposed.
> > They are just my innocent and simple thinking. I think they are just
> > theory. But that's all as much as I can think of. So plz give me your
> > hands.
> > Last, I want to say that I pretty don't know how to show my very very
> > very great happiness to be here. I felt like receiving a million roses
> > to receive the email welcome me :) . So, once again, thanks for your
> > very warm words in every emails.
> > Wish my bro and sis smile,
> > HeO
> >
>
>
> --
> Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
> Attorney of Law
> Washington DC
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