[Vnbiz] Moree EEL: Money smuggler did it to help his poor village in Vietnam - land of Robin Hoods?

Sat Aug 18 19:33:13 PDT 2007

[Subject addended: ... Vietnam - land of Robin Hoods?]

I'm imagining Vietnamese cultural history or mythology must be filled with
Robin Hoods -- not sure why.

Is it?  If so, who were some of the most famous characters?

On 8/19/07, AD Marshall <admarshall at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Anh Hoanh (et al implied),
>
> Your concerns and account of your experience were heard, understood and
> empathized with.
>
> My spontaneous response was: Gad!  I've just lived as an apparent walking
> bank-machine in a nation of poor people for the last 13 years and been
> robbed, cheated or defrauded for significant losses more than a twice a year
> each of those years.  Each time it has happened, despite diverse strategies
> to prevent it, it is still an unnerving experience that always tends to
> revive general prejudices in me about the peoples from whom Van Dang Tran
> originates.
>
> And, though i've never been to prison, i've been in jail for a few hours
> and remain a part of the criminal element because i got caught with a few
> gram of cannabis in the Canadian prairies about 25 years ago.  In my teens,
> i was hauled off the street and subjected to arbitrary interrogation by the
> police a half dozen times because i was assumed to be a part of the criminal
> element even before i was officially indoctrinated.
>
> Yet, despite all that, and the fact that i am also suspicious of his true
> motives, i still do not *presume* Van Dang Tran is lying until proven
> otherwise.  As a lawyer of the USofA, are you not obliged to do the same,
> despite even your most repetitively sordid experiences?
>
> Frankly, i find it highly ironic that the shoe now seems to have slipped
> onto the other foot and i find myself having to argue for a suspension of
> skepticism, if not cynicism, for some compassion in granting this guy the
> benefit of the doubt, against you, A. Hoanh, our champion of compassion ad
> nauseam <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_nauseam>.
>
> So, ignoring mere speculation about Van Dang Tran's honesty or lack
> thereof, or other diversions, or, perhaps, even siding with ' Judge
> Stephen Norrish [who heard the case and] was satisfied, however, that Tran
> was "lured for altruistic reasons"', iff<http://www.thefreedictionary.com/iff>we could simply assume
> for the sake of our own edification that Van Dang Tran was a Robin Hood
> rather than a robbin' hood, again i ask, which might have had or should
> have had primacy for (even presumably) altruistic criminals like Van Dang
> Tran or Robin Hood?  Ethics, economics or law?
>
> The implied context of the question is again our own recent thread on the
> subject.  One tentatively foreseen conclusion was a sketchy socio-economic
> argument for isolated cases of civil disobedience against the Law, similar
> to prior arguments by JS Mill, Henry David Thoreau and Pierre
> Elliot-Trudeau.
>
>
> On 8/18/07, Tran Dinh Hoanh <tdhoanh at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> >
> > Dear brother Andi & CACC,
> >
> > Interesting story.  But I don't really buy his excuses.  I think he is
> > lying.
> >
> > First, transporting 6.5 million dollars and getting only $50K in
> > commission is absurd.  Criminal activities pay much higher than that.  A 10%
> > commission, that would be $650K, 3% would be $195K.  $50K is in no way
> > within the range.  And this is an experienced pilot, he is not so stupid as
> > to do crimes at peanut price.  He is lying to the authorities and have
> > hundreds of thousands of dollars still stacked up in Vietnam somewhere.  You
> > will see he spend that money after he gets out of jail.
> >
> > Second, he needs money for a community project so he commits crimes?
> > That is unreal.  Ethical people commit crime, if they do, only because they
> > are pressed into it by really pressing need, such as they have to eat to
> > survive, they need food and medicine for their children, not for something
> > as vague as "a building for his poor village."  For that kind  project, he
> > can do it fairly easily by just organizing a volunteer group, motivate
> > people and raise funds.  I am sure that as a pilot he can easily motivate
> > the airlines and airlines workers into supporting that project. There is no
> > need at all for money laundering.
> >
> > If you visit prison, Andi, most of the hard-core criminals in prison
> > will tell you that "I didn't do it, they framed me"  or "the stupid police
> > confused me with someone else" or "I did it but just to help the city get
> > rid of criminals."  Rarely you will find a criminal that simply says "Mea
> > Culpa, meaculpa, mea culpa."
> >
> > I am not being cynical.  I am in the legal work for so long that I just
> > have to have a very good sense of whether someone is telling the truth or
> > lying.
> >
> > Have a great day!
> >
> > Hoanh
> >
> >
> > On 8/18/07, AD Marshall <admarshall at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Another recent incident that might be interesting to try fit into the
> > > ethics, economics or law (EEL ;)) thread (under "Intel Vietnam refuses to
> > > pay bribes") -- from http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/money-smuggler-did-it-to-help-his-poor-village-in-vietnam/2007/08/17/1186857771523.html
> > >   (See BeLow.)
> > >
> > > Which had or should have had primacy for Van Dang Tran -- or other
> > > criminal entrepreneurs likening Robin Hood?  Ethics, economics or law?
> > >
> > > Money smuggler did it to help his poor village in Vietnam
> > > Jennifer Cooke, August 18, 2007
> > >
> > > A SOVIET-TRAINED Vietnamese former wing commander, who once flew
> > > dignitaries including Alexander Downer, was jailed yesterday for his part in
> > > a smuggling scheme in which more than $93 million was transported out of
> > > Australia.
> > >
> > > Van Dang Tran, a pilot with Vietnam Airlines until his arrest at
> > > Sydney Airport last year with more than $540,000 in his cabin luggage, was
> > > sentenced to 4½ years' jail over 18 separate undeclared transports of cash
> > > to Vietnam, totalling $6.499 million, between July 2005 and June last year.
> > > Judge Stephen Norrish was satisfied, however, that Tran was "lured for
> > > altruistic reasons" in wanting to borrow $50,000 - about what he earned in
> > > illegal commissions - for a building project in his poor childhood village
> > > outside Hanoi.
> > >
> > > The youngest of 11 siblings, Tran, 38, had been put in touch with the
> > > proprietors of the Long Thanh Money Transfer Company in Footscray, Melbourne
> > > which had three subsidiaries including in Cabramatta and Bankstown from
> > > which he collected a total of $6.499 million and took all but the $540,000
> > > found in his luggage to Vietnam.
> > >
> > > Electronic and physical surveillance involving the Footscray
> > > money-lending business revealed Vietnam Airlines flight crew members had
> > > allegedly moved large amounts of cash linked to drug deals out of Australia
> > > and Tran was used regularly, the court was told.
> > >
> > > Tran refused to provide investigators from an Australian Crime
> > > Commission task force with any names of crew members allegedly involved.
> > >
> > > He pleaded guilty to one charge of reckless money laundering of more
> > > than $1 million under the Commonwealth Criminal Code Act. The sentence
> > > stipulated a non-parole period of 2½ years.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1st best guess: Each person's economic thinking constantly weighs the
> > > expected risks of any foreseen costs of breaching ethics and/or laws against
> > > the imagined benefits of doing so as each trade-off arises between the two
> > > (cost and benefits foreseen) and sometimes makes rational, righteous Robin
> > > Hoods of the more courageous among us, good or bad, smart or dumb...
> > > successfully unknown or renowned by their failures...
> > >
> > > Bonus guess:
> > >
> > >    - The ethical and economic responses are first innate autonomic
> > >    reactions to feelings then evolve with experience, with ethics being always
> > >    being more emotionally influenced, from day one, and economic rationales
> > >    usually becoming more rational and less emotionally influenced, from day
> > >    one, too;
> > >    - laws are later born of the ethical and economic positions of a
> > >    nation's most powerful peoples;
> > >    - then all three become interdependent and evolve and devolve in
> > >    response to mass socio-economic responses (including those ethical and
> > >    legal), with the laws always lagging the average socio-economic response,
> > >    legal or rebelliously not.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Tran Dinh Hoanh, Esq., LLB, JD
> > Washington DC
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