[Vnbiz] Intel Vietnam refuses to pay bribes
AD Marshall
admarshall at gmail.com
Wed Aug 15 10:34:05 PDT 2007
Before introducing this further diversion following along the path Chi
Lien's last post takes this thread, i'd like to say that if i'd read the
posts of Chi Lien and Hong-Phong_Pho at ita.doc.gov first, i could have and
would have made my last long post a lot shorter. ;)
The related issues highlighted by the follow report from the American Bar
Association's Journal online (ABAJournal.com) are:
1. an extension Chi Lien's point, that if even ethical people see that
it is too difficult to stay within the law, they will get used to working
outside it, if only to minimize their contact with "the Law";
2. supporting my own suggestion that underground economies (hiding
from government) can often be rational grey market solutions to inadequate
legal infrastructures.
The report is entitled "Jail a Risk for Vietnam Investors":
Posted Aug 14, 2007, 11:10 am CDT
[to the ABAJournal online; Slogan - "Law news now"
at http://www.abajournal.com/news/jail_a_risk_for_vietnam_investors/ -- ADM]
By Debra Cassens Weiss <http://www.abajournal.com/authors/4>
Investors hoping to make big money in Vietnam face risks, not the least of
which is jail.
That's the lesson learned by American businessman Hoan Nguyen, who sat in a
Hanoi prison for 14 months while police investigated a business dispute with
his government partners, the Wall Street
Journal<http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118702662210596089.html>(sub.
req.) reports.
Nguyen told the newspaper he was allowed to see a lawyer only twice while he
was held without charges. A preliminary police report found there was not
enough evidence to bring charges, but a final decision is still pending.
Meanwhile, the $85,000 his family paid in what was supposed to be bail money
has not been returned.
Businesspeople in Vietnam face risks of jail under the broadly defined crime
of economic mismanagement, said Tony Foster, who heads the Vietnamese
practice at British firm Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer. Business disputes
turn into problems for the criminal justice system because complainants
can't get recourse in the ill-equipped civil justice system.
On 8/15/07, AD Marshall <admarshall at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Great point about the conflict between peoples' ethics and the economics
> they face, Chi Lien -- not only because it supports my own arguments. ;)
>
> Some related extracts from the Book of Tao, posted earlier to this list:
>
> Fifty-eight
> When the country is ruled with a light hand
> The people are simple.
> When the country is ruled with severity,
> The people are cunning.
>
>
> [And remembering that this was written in a time in China when death was a
> common punishment for breaking any laws and all out rebellion was often the
> only effective form of popular resistance...]
>
> Seventy-five
> ...
>
> Why are the people rebellious?
> Because the rulers interfere too much.
> Therefore they are rebellious.
>
> Why do the people think so little of death?
> Because the rulers demand too much of life.
> Therefore the people take death lightly.
>
> Having little to live on, one knows better than to value life too much.
>
>
> On 8/15/07, Bui Bich Lien <lien.bb at gmail.com > wrote:
> >
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> > Anh Hoanh and CACC,
> >
> >
> > 1. The OECD member countries adopted a Convention on Combating
> > Bribery of Foreign Public Officials in International Business Transactions
> > in 1997.
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. Corruption in Vietnam, as elsewhere, is often systematic. So I
> > guess that an institutional approach to corruption may help enlighten the
> > problem. Having said this, I do not mean to underestimate the fact that
> > ethical individuals/citizens are jewels in every society. But as Nam Cao
> > stated [almost hundred years ago] in the famous Chi Pheo "tao muon lam nguoi
> > tu te, nhung ai cho tao lam nguoi tu te" (I want to be a good person, but
> > who allows me to do that???). Within my limited circle of
> > friends/acquaintances, I already know MANY public officials in Vietnam who
> > have relatively high ethical standards and want to be good citizens. But
> > it's the fact that they are operating in a system that is known for high
> > level of corruption. The system has not been mature enough to facilitate
> > them to do what they want -- life is a matter of choice, and I can well
> > understand one's choice of survival before ethical. If the US has FCPA,
> > Vietnam has an Anti-corruption Law too. And I just mentioned, Vietnam seems
> > not lack ethical officials/professionals either. There must be something
> > else, apart from legislation, and individual citizens, that makes the system
> > the way it is. An open-ended question, to which I have no answer.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rgs,
> >
> >
> >
> > Lien
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* vnbiz-bounces at mail.saigon.com [mailto:vnbiz-bounces at mail.saigon.com]
> > *On Behalf Of *Tran Dinh Hoanh
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:55 AM
> > *To:* vnbiz at vietlinks.net
> > *Subject:* Re: [Vnbiz] Intel Vietnam refuses to pay bribes
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear brother Andi,
> >
> >
> >
> > The US Foreign Corrup-tion Practices Act of 1977 (FCPA) prohibits U.S.
> > companies, their subsidiaries, as well as their officers, directors,
> > employees, and agents from bribing "foreign officials" (and also requires
> > U.S. companies that issue debt or equity to maintain internal accounting
> > controls and to keep books and records that accurately reflect all
> > transactions). It means that even if the payment is considered legal in a
> > foreign country under the law or normal practice of that country (such as
> > the customary "boi duong" or "gifts" in Vietnam), it is still illegal under
> > the US law if it violates the FCPA and the American violator will be
> > prosecuted in the US court, even if the payment is done in a foreign
> > country.
> >
> >
> >
> > As far as I know, only the US reaches its citizens that far. Other
> > countries will let its citizens do whatever is considered legal practice in
> > a foreign country.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't understand why we have to talk about Iraq. I oppose that war
> > because it is stupid. But it is not about oil, or at leadt not about oil
> > only. (/11 attack on the US is real, and if Bush over-reacted in Iraq, that
> > would be easy to understand. :Let's stay with what we can prove by facts.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not saying that American companies are not corrupt, Some of them
> > do, and I did talk about the Banana Republic often in this forum.
> > However, many US companies will not engage in corruption practices
> > overseas because US companies have many ethical lawyers like me.
> >
> >
> >
> > Have a great day!
> >
> >
> >
> > Hoanh
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/14/07, *AD Marshall* <admarshall at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Anh Hoanh,
> >
> > Could you please expand a bit on your statement, "The US is the ONLY
> > country in the world that has the anti-corruption practices act", to explain
> > whether or not this means the US is (a) the only country with
> > anti-corruption laws, (b) the only country with effective anti-corruption
> > laws, (c) the only country with one set of laws specifically called the
> > "Anti-Corruption Practices Act" or (d) some other meaning? The wording and
> > grammatical mechanics of that statement seem to invite misinterpretation in
> > the USA's favour.
> >
> > I initially wondered about this because i remembered that while living
> > in Hong Kong over 1990-1994 that territory had already instituted a very
> > rigorous set of anti-corruption laws complemented by an enforcement
> > infrastructure that was world-renowned for its effectiveness. And,
> > according to Google searches on the American Bar Association, US
> > anti-corruption laws seem to date from 2000.AD <http://2000.ad/>, though
> > i didn't have time to confirm that conclusively.
> >
> > Next, i was reminded of the curious naming of the Operation Iraqi
> > Freedom which avoided the then most prevalent keyword of the Bush Admin's
> > pro-war propaganda, "liberation". It would be just too revealing to call
> > the US invasion of the sovereign state of Iraq, "Operation Iraqi Liberation"
> > (OIL). No?
> >
> > Just joking. But around the rest of world not dominated by the Fox
> > network and other pro-US-Bush-Admin media i think it's been pretty obvious
> > from the beginning of the US invasion of Iraq that that war has always been
> > primarily about controlling oil supplies and resultant wealth (and
> > pollution).
> >
> > Often less obvious have been self-serving links between the Bush Admin',
> > Big Oil and the Bush family's ties to the Saudi regime, Dick Cheney's
> > Halliburton, which was virtually granted a monopoly on repairing the damage
> > the Bush Admin' has been causing in Iraq, along with arms dealers like
> > Carlyle (with its long, well-documented Bush-family ties to the Saudi bin
> > Laden family). (Cf
> > http://www.google.com/search?q=bush+family+arms-dealers+oil-companies ,
> > in particular "'Frauds-R-Us' - The Bush Family Saga", http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3308.htm
> > , which has entries about both Halliburton and Carlyle. Otherwise, if
> > you're not a rabid neocon
> > <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=neocon>, just watch or
> > read Micheal Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11".)
> >
> > Now, if that's not yet another example of the USA's long history of
> > highly sophisticated INSTITUTIONALIZED corruption, i don't know what is.
> >
> > Like the leadership debate, there seems to be yet another glaring gap
> > between principles and practice when we discuss anti-corruption efforts.
> >
> > But how do we measure and rank institutionalized corruption? Because
> > most accepted international corruption indices (now also "indexes") are
> > based on legal definitions of corruption most will have difficulty measuring
> > corruption based on legal loopholes or institutionally accepted practices
> > that allow corruption to leak in legally.
> >
> > Still, just to get an idea of how the US ranks on corruption,
> > internationally -- without counting the institutionalized corruption
> > inherent in political campaign contributions, media patronage, etc -- see
> > for example the "2006 Corruption Perception Index" of Transparency
> > International wherein the US ranks 22nd, after Chile. [ http://www.transparency.org/content/download/10825/92857/version/1/file/CPI_2006_presskit_eng.pdf
> > ]
> >
> > Also, i did stretch my free time a bit to use the US-dominated World
> > Bank's Governance data to construct a chart of 20 arbitrarily selected
> > nations' "Corruption Control" rankings, including the USA and Vietnam. I'd
> > suggest it's significantly revealing of the USA's position. I posted it
> > here: http://govap-sighgone.blogspot.com/2007/08/twenty-nations-ranked-by-corruption.html
> >
> >
> > I'd also submit that the VNExpress report (BeLow) on Intel's
> > anti-corruption role primarily highlights most news media's foci (now also
> > "focuses") on news involving what the TV ad-industry calls "Jiggles &
> > Jolts", ie representations of sex, money, violence, etc, to attract and hold
> > viewers attention. Jiggles & Jolts sell the news just like they sell TV
> > game shows. Just as your own anti-corruption efforts went unreported, Anh
> > Hoanh, i'm sure hundreds of other laudable efforts before Intel's have just
> > not been judged "news-worthy".
> >
> > Last but not least, i'd suggest we should not forget the pervasive
> > impact bribes still have in the editorial choices of Vietnam Inc's PR
> > Department, ie, the nation's entire state-owned news media.
> >
> > Just yet another couple of dong's worth -- for whatever that's worth
> > (max VND16,198/USD according to Vietcombank, at http://www.thanhniennews.com/exrates/index.php
> > , but VND16,200/USD at a Go Vap jewelry shop, yesterday).
> >
> > With regards,
> > AD
> >
> > On 8/15/07, *Tran Dinh Hoanh* < tdhoanh at gmail.com > wrote:
> >
> > [ Vietnam Business Forum ]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear CACC,
> >
> >
> >
> > According to this VNExpress article, Intel Product Viet Nam has signed
> > with the management of the Advanced Industrial Zone of HCMC a memorandum on
> > business ethics, rules of conduct and "saying 'no' to corruption." This is
> > the first momorandum of this type in Vietnam. The US General Consul in HCMC
> > also signed this momorandum.
> >
> >
> >
> > And I am very a happy that this is a US-based company. The US is
> > the ONLY country in the world that has the anti-corruption practices act
> > that prohibits its citizens to engage in corruption practices overseas.
> > When I was in Vietnam, I was solicited into many multi-million-dollar deals
> > with under-the-table payments required. I refused all of them (which made
> > some of my solicitors very upset and kept me poor). But I told them,
> > "I am an American lawyer. My job is to teach my clients to keep the
> > law. And the US law is very clear: 'No payment under the table, no
> > kickback, no bribe.' Sorry, no deal."
> >
> >
> >
> > I hope that US companies will happily follow Intel to lift up the
> > American ethics torch overseas. And I am very happy to see that the US
> > government is involved in this ethical effort.
> >
> >
> >
> > Have a great day!
> >
> >
> >
> > Hoanh
> >
> >
> >
> > __________
> >
> >
> >
> > http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Kinh-doanh/2007/08/3B9F9342/
> >
> >
> >
> > Tha;) ba, 14/8/2007, 20:25 GMT+7
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Intel Via;t Nam ta;+ cha; i ha; i la;
> >
> > Chia;u 14/8, Intel Product Via;t Nam D C# kC= va;i Ban Qua:#n lC= Khu
> > cC4ng ngha; cao TP HCM (SHTP) ba:#n ghi nha; va; D a:!o D a;)c kinh doanh vC
> > quy ta:/c a;)ng xa;-, cC9ng nC3i khC4ng va;i tham nhE)ng. DC"y lC la:'n D
> > a:'u tiC*n ta:!i Via;t Nam, ma;t cC4ng ty vC cF! quan nhC nF0a;c kC= va;i
> > nhau ma;t vD
> > ------------------------------
> > n ba:#n nhF0 va:-y.
> > > Intel VN nha:-n gia:%y phC)p tD
> > ------------------------------
> > ng va; n lC*n 1 ta;7 USD<http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Kinh-doanh/2006/11/3B9F042F/>
> >
> > Ta; ng giC!m D a; c Intel Via;t Nam Rick Howarth, GiC!m D a; c SHTP
> > Nguya;n DC,nh Mai vC tC"n Ta; ng lC#nh sa;1 Ma;9 ta:!i TP HCM Ken Fairfax,
> > cC9ng kC= trC*n ba:#n quy ta:/c ga; c ca;'a cC4ng ty Intel, D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > ghi nha; trC!ch nhia;m xC# ha;i ca;'a mC,nh.
> >
> > Ba:#n quy ta:/c na;i ba; Intel cam ka:?t 5 D ia;
> > ------------------------------
> > m. DC3 lC hoa:!t D a;ng kinh doanh va;i tinh tha:'n trung tha;1c vC
> > chC-nh tra;1c; tuC"n tha;' phC!p lua:-t trong ma;i tC,nh hua; ng; mC4i
> > trF0a;ng lC m via;c cC4ng ba:1ng vC khC4ng phC"n bia;t; nhC"n viC*n Intel lC
> > m via;c vC, la;#i C-ch cC4ng ty vC trC!nh xung D a;t; cC9ng nhau ba:#o va;
> > tC i sa:#n vC danh tia:?ng doanh nghia;p.
> >
> > Ta; ng giC!m D a; c Intel Product Via;t Nam kC= vC o Ba; quy ta:/c
> > a;)ng xa;- ca;'a cC4ng ty. a:"nh: *P.A.*
> >
> > Theo D C3, Intel vC SHTP tha;a thua:-n, sa:= D ia;u tra vC cC3 nha;/ng
> > hC nh D a;ng thC-ch ha;#p D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > gia:#i quya:?t nha;/ng va:%n D a; liC*n quan D a:?n quy ta:/c a;)ng
> > xa;- nC y. TrF0a;ng ha;#p phC!t sinh nha;/ng va:%n D a; liC*n quan D a; i
> > tC!c nhF0 D F0a vC nha:-n ha; i la;, tia;n la:!i qua:#, hay ba:%t ca;) hC,nh
> > tha;)c nC o va; via;c tham nhE)ng hay cC!c hC nh vi sai trC!i khC!c... cE)ng
> > D F0a;#c Intel vC SHTP thC4ng bC!o cho nhau hoa:7c bC!o cho cF! quan cha;)c
> > nD
> > ------------------------------
> > ng.
> >
> > Intel cE)ng cam ka:?t ma; thF0a;ng xuyC*n cC!c la;p hua:%n luya;n nhC"n
> > viC*n va; D a:!o D a;)c vC phC!p lua:-t, ga;-i ba:#n sao ghi nha; D a:?n
> > nha;/ng nhC cung ca:%p cE)ng nhF0 kia;
> > ------------------------------
> > m tra via;c tha;1c hia;n.
> >
> > NC3i khC4ng va;i tham nhE)ng khC4ng da;
> >
> > C ng Rick Howarth ka;
> > ------------------------------
> > , D C# cC3 la:'n nhC"n viC*n Intel D F0a;#c D a; i tC!c ga;#i C= ha; i
> > la; D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > D a:!t D F0a;#c ma;t tha;a thua:-n ha;#p D a; ng. Sa;1 via;c ba;
> > phC!t hia;n, D ia;u tra vC nhC"n viC*n vi pha:!m ba;
> > sa tha:#i. "Ma;%c D C-ch chC-nh ca;'a ba:#n tha;a thua:-n ghi nha; va;i
> > SHTP lC chC:ng tC4i mua; n nC"ng cao tC-nh minh ba:!ch ca;'a mC4i trF0a;ng D
> > a:'u tF0 ta:!i Khu cC4ng ngha; cao TP HCM", C4ng Ta; ng giC!m D a; c Intel
> > Via;t Nam nC3i.
> >
> > GiC!m D a; c SHTP Nguya;n DC,nh Mai cE)ng kha:3ng D a;
> > nh, sa;1 ta;1 nguya;n ca;'a Intel D C# kha;i xF0a;ng via;c thC:c D a:)y
> > ma;t mC4i trF0a;ng D a:'u tF0 sa:!ch, xC3a ba; nha;/ng hC nh vi tiC*u ca;1c
> > nhF0 tham nhE)ng, ha; i la;, la:!m da;%ng quya;n la;1c D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > mF0u la;#i cC! nhC"n...
> >
> > NhC"n viC*n Intel cE)ng na; i tia:?p theo sa:?p. a:"nh: *P.A.*
> >
> > Theo C4ng Mai, tha;a thua:-n cha; ng tham nhE)ng va;i Intel mang la:!i
> > giC! tra;
> > ha;#p tC!c nhia;u ma:7t cho ca:# 2 bC*n. PhC-a Intel ca:/t gia:#m D
> > F0a;#c nha;/ng chi phC- khC4ng ca:'n thia:?t trong quC! trC,nh hoa:!t D
> > a;ng, xC"y da;1ng thC nh cC4ng mC4 hC,nh chi phC- ca:!nh tranh vC tD
> > ------------------------------
> > ng hia;u qua:# kinh doanh ta:!i Via;t Nam. CC2n SHTP cE)ng D F0a;#c cC!i
> > la;#i lC ta:!o mC4i trF0a;ng thua:-n la;#i cho cC!c nhC D a:'u tF0 trong khu
> > cC4ng ngha; cao vC tD
> > ------------------------------
> > ng tC-nh ca:!nh tranh va; lC"u dC i.
> >
> > Trong khi D C3, Ta; ng lC#nh sa;1 Ma;9 ta:!i TP HCM Ken Fairfax thC,
> > nha:%n ma:!nh thC4ng D ia;p, ngay ca:# nha;/ng cC4ng ty ca:!nh tranh nha:%t
> > trong ngC nh cC4ng nghia;p ca:!nh tranh nha:%t (cC4ng ngha; cao) ca;'a tha:?
> > gia;i cE)ng cC3 nhu ca:'u pha:#i hoa:!t D a;ng cC4ng ba:1ng, lC nh ma:!nh;
> > mC C4ng ga;i lC vD
> > ------------------------------
> > n hC3a doanh nghia;p. Trong khi D C3 phC2ng cha; ng tham nhE)ng D ang lC
> > ma;%c tiC*u quan tra;ng ca;'a chF0F!ng trC,nh hC nh D a;ng ChC-nh pha;'
> > Via;t Nam vC ca:# Ma;9 D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > xC"y da;1ng mC4i trF0a;ng kinh doanh minh ba:!ch vC hia;u qua:#.
> >
> > C ng Hen Fairfax ka;3 va;ng ra:1ng, ba:#n cam ka:?t ca;'a Intel D i
> > tiC*n phong sa:= tra; thC nh khuC4n ma:+u D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > nhC"n ra;ng ta:!i Via;t Nam, ta:!o nC*n ma;t na;n kinh ta:? vC xC# ha;i
> > nD
> > ------------------------------
> > ng D a;ng, ca;i ma;, bC,nh D a:3ng.
> >
> > Intel D ang D a:'u tF0 1 ta;7 USD vC o Khu cC4ng ngha; cao TP HCM D a;
> > ------------------------------
> > xC"y da;1ng nhC mC!y la:/p rC!p vC kia;
> > ------------------------------
> > m nghia;m chC-p bC!n da:+n la;n nha:%t tha:? gia;i. NhC mC!y D ang trong
> > giai D oa:!n xC"y da;1ng, khi chC-nh tha;)c hoa:!t D a;ng sa:= ta:!o ra
> > khoa:#ng 4.000 via;c lC m vC mang va; kim nga:!ch xua:%t kha:)u 5-6 ta;7
> > USD/nD
> > ------------------------------
> > m.
> >
> > *Phan Anh*
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tran Dinh Hoanh, Esq., LLB, JD
> >
> > Washington DC
> >
> > --
> > AD (Andi) Marshall
> > eMail: admarshall at gmail.com
> > Zone: ICT (IndoChina Time, GMT/UTC+7)
> > Web: http://admarshall.googlepages.com/
> > Post: HoChiMinh City (ex/or SaiGon), VietNam
> > Quote: "Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none..."
> > Source: Shakespeare, 1623, "All's Well That Ends Well"
> > Get it at Gutenberg: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2246
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe, please contact admins at
> > vnbizadmin at vietlinks.net
> > Info at http://mail.saigon.com/mailman/listinfo/vnbiz
> > Archive at
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> > or http://groups-beta.google.com/group/VNBIZforum/
> > or http://mail.saigon.com/pipermail/vnbiz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tran Dinh Hoanh, Esq., LLB, JD
> > Washington DC
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe, please contact admins at
> > vnbizadmin at vietlinks.net
> > Info at http://mail.saigon.com/mailman/listinfo/vnbiz
> > Archive at
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> > or http://groups-beta.google.com/group/VNBIZforum/
> > or http://mail.saigon.com/pipermail/vnbiz
> >
> >
>
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