[Vnbiz] Ngoai Hinh Can Doi (Proportionate Body)

Thu Apr 19 07:52:38 PDT 2007

I don't think anh Thien is playing the Devil's Advocate, he is just being 
realistic.
We are all products of our cultures and environment.  So while I generallt 
agree with anh Hoanh's view of what should be, I do not think it is fair 
for him to compare the U.S. and Vietnam in this respect.  What is openly 
said in Vietnam is practiced down to a science in the U.S. in certain 
industries.
You don't have to look very hard to see who populate the fashion, 
advertising and entertainment industry.  And it's all consumer driven.
In Vietnam, the Ngoai Hinh Can Doi requirement is used by American/Western 
companies, as well as Vietnamese companies!
Beautiful people will always enjoy certain advantages in certain 
industries, just as good tasting food will always be eaten more than 
nutricious but otherwise bland food.  I know that I prefer to fly a 
non-U.S. airlines, if prices are the same, and I do not consider myself 
particularly sexist, just human.
Cheers,  HPP

"Tran Dinh Hoanh" <tdhoanh at gmail.com> 
Sent by: vnbiz-bounces at mail.saigon.com
04/19/2007 08:49 AM
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[Vnbiz] Ngoai Hinh Can Doi (Proportionate Body)

[ Vietnam Business Forum ]

Dear Brother Thien & CACC,

Thanks for the interesting point, brother Thien.  I have changed the 
subject title to Proportionate Body to focus on this phrase.

I think brother Thien is playing Devil's Advocate, because you 
intentionally raised an argument usually raised by obnoxious employers. 
Sorry, in my line of thinking and attitude, Ngoai Hinh Can Doi 
(Proportionate Body) is the phrase only fit for a slave master who is 
buying female slaves or a ma'  mi` looking for prostitutes.  I cannot see 
any justification for any employer to say that.  IN the US, if an employer 
says he want employees if Proportionate Body chances are he go bankrupt 
the next day, because no man or woman in their right mind would work for a 
person like that. 

Even if the employer is in the fashion business, he can say his employees 
have to be "presentable" (lich su).  That is enough to make his point and 
everyone would understand exactly what he wants.

But we may talk in theory here.  The fact is the term NGoai Hinh Can doi 
and "Chan Dai" (long legs) is used as a fact in Vietnam for employers to 
focus on the body of the women they hire, including women for the job that 
need brain and not the body.  This shows how far behind the men of Vietnam 
is in their thinking and attitude. 

So brother Thien is right that there are job that need people who look 
presentable.  Actually any job require people who look presentable.  What 
is presentable varies with circumstances, and we all generally have an 
idea what they are.  But "Proportionate body"?  Common guys, that is 
simply so sexist and chauvinistic beyond my comprehension. 

Have a great day, brother Thien and all.

Hoanh

On 4/19/07, Tran Ba Thien <tranbathien at gmail.com> wrote: 
[ Vietnam Business Forum ]

Dear brother Hoanh,

I totally agree your points of talent and business. but I want to focus on 
your example of "ngoai hinh can doi" a little bit.

generally, we need to define the concept of fair and concept of equality. 
When I pay $50 for a shirt, I must receive it. Then you pay $100, you must 
receive 2. It's fair. Then it's unfair if I ask shopkeeper to give me 2 
shirt. but the shopkeeper need to treat you and me with the same service 
even you pay more than me. It's equal. 

In some particular business, for example in  a fashion shop, the boss of 
the shop can employ shopkeeper with ngoai hinh can doi instead of not "can 
doi". The boss might afraid that his customers wouldn't want to visit his 
shop because his shopkeeper is not very beautiful. The boss cannot give 
his business into the hand of someone that he cannot believe. the shop is 
his property, his life and etc. We cannot say that his treatment for the 
case is unequality.We need to interprete his excuse as difference in 
business. 

when he employ beautiful shopkeeper, he needs to pay more than not very 
beautiful person. the decision of employment comes from his customers. 
they love to see beautiful shopkeeper. When he meets their need, his 
business can work well. Compare to the other business such as in making 
clothe factory. customers of the factory don't need to see who makes their 
clotes. If the director of the factory refuse someone by their appearance, 
it's unequal. but the boss of the clothe showroom can refuse not very 
beautiful shopkeepers. it's fair. 

When boss can prove that his business need beauty, he can select beautiful 
workers. We should distinguish unequality in business with difference in 
business.

Best luck,
Tran Ba Thien
tranbathien at gmail.com
-- 
Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
Attorney of Law
Washington DC _______________________________________________
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