[Vnbiz] (The Bad Habits of Vietnamese)

Sat Sep 30 12:06:21 PDT 2006

All,

I originally stayed away as this was for "Vietnamese VNbzrs becoz",
but it seems to me that this is an attempt to trump a group up or knock them
down related to some belief based in exceptionalism.  Exceptionalism, to me,
whether practiced today or in the past is a dangerous endeavor. It's
idolatry, that can become ideology, which can bind and confuse not allowing
individuals to constructively engage the "real" world around them. Today
with more universal (worldwide) access to information, education, and, with
simply, the expansion of knowledge I believe there are serious limits to a
rational belief in exceptionalism. Beliefs in exceptionalism largely caused
the conflict in the recent Bosnian wars.  It seems to me that to choose a
belief in exceptionalism is an attempt, a choice, to prefer to see life in a
vacuum.

Take the Japanese example used before, the existing analysis is that they
saw their limitiations, and from grace of ethnicity were able to define
their place in the world and to excel from simply that acknowledgement.  But
is it not still that world surrounding it that was the greatest determiner
of that success.  Certain exigencies existed which encouraged, in fact
enabled, that development, similarly in the Korean case, which takes nothing
from these people, yet most importantly, doesn't attempt to glorify their
exceptionalism yet rather attempts to take into account the whole system.

To me, the Vietnamese people in general are wonderful.  At the family or
network level the  support provided each other can be exceptional; is
often amazing.  Yet, at the individual level there are good and bad; people,
choices, opportunities, and abilities.

The Vietnamese people, and others interested, should continue to help in the
development of your bountiful land for the collective benefit.  In my
opinion YOU should avoid judging YOURSELVES too harshly by some notions that
seek the exception in a world of rules.  We are all moving too fast for that
now.

Work for the benefit of each other rather than simply some shiny trinkets
that seperate us, perhaps make us feel better than our neighbor, while
understanding that each individual, perhaps, has gifts that separates them
from their neighbor yet which is required to be supported by the whole.
That is if your goal is the development olf your country rather than simply
your own pocketbook.

Craig

On 9/30/06, Tran Dinh Hoanh <tdhoanh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> [Vietnam Business Forum]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Brother Binh & CACC,
>
> Thanks, brother Binh, for the clarification.
>
> I understand Tien Phong's purposes when they post that series of articles
> about bad habits of the Vietnamese.   However I seriously have a problem
> with that.
>
> First, as mentioned earlier, most problems on the list are not exclusively
> Vietnamese.  Arrogance, impatience, laziness, etc...  are very abundant in
> any society in the world.  When we say that we these are Vietnamese
> problems, we really look down on ourselves.  We sound like the Japanese, the
> American, the French don't have such problems or they have less than we do.
> That is wrong.  We cannot fix any problem when we diagnose the wrong cause.
> As far as I can see, typical human weaknesses (arrogance, looking down on
> the poor, impatience, laziness,...) is about the same in any society.  The
> difference in the level of development is in something else.
>
> Second, many of the "bad habits" listed are not even "bad habit."
> Example:  Smiling.  Smiling before, during, and after talking is a very good
> thing.  Smiling makes us relaxed mentally and makes everyone else happy.
> Why is such a bad thing?  I remember reading Pham Quynh's Gi Cung Cuoi
> (Smiling to Everything) when I was high school.  Pham Quynh was consider one
> of our very influential culturalists and intellectuals of the early 20th
> century.  He heavily criticizes us Vietnamese for smiling all the time.
> Obvious he was studied with the grumpy French and grumpy Confucians, so he
> hated smiling.  For many years I believed in Pham Quynh until I realized
> that smiling is a very good thing.  I would love my employees to smile all
> day.
>
> We tend to take habits of foreign countries (that are more powerful than
> we) and say they are  good.  And our habit, if different from a foreign
> habit, then that is a bad thing.  Maybe our habit makes us poor and
> backward?
>
> Ten years ago, the Singaporean government had to have a "Smile" campaign,
> to tell the Singaporeans to smile.  And here in Vietnam we say smiling is
> bad.  Isn't that crazy?
>
> (Of course, in international trade, we need to understand body language.
> I would say: "If you talk to a European and an American, when you want him
> to know that you are deadly serious, you don't want to smile, because they
> may misunderstand your smile.  Other than that, smile as much as you can,
> because smiling is always a winner").
>
> So, my big problem here is that we look down on ourselves so much that we
> even think about our strength as our weakness.  That is a serious serious
> serious development problem.  If a beautiful girl keeps thinking that she is
> ugly or a smart girl thinks that she is stupid, she will have a lot of
> problem trying to develop herself in life.
>
> Third, so here is the big problem that I see in our society:  We look down
> on us and measure ourselves by the other people's standards.  We go to
> France and learn not to smile so much, then when we come back to our home we
> say 'smiling is bad."  Come on!
>
> We need to be confident in our own culture and strength.  Tell the world
> to visit Vietnam because we are "The Land of Smiles"  (Could someone please
> forward this to Vietnam Tourism and submit it for its slogan. Maybe we will
> win some money for a round of Pho for everyone in VNBIZ).
>
> Another example is Buddhism, for years as I grow up, Buddhism is
> considered by the Vietnamesee intellectuals as backward and obsolete.  Today
> the Westerrn world is discovering it as a very sophisticated and peaceful
> system of thinking and living.  Tell the world to visit Vietnam because we
> have we are the "Land of Zen" (Please forward this to Vietnam Tourism too).
>
> Another "bad habit" is that we Vietnamese don't like confrontation. When
> we work we want to compromise, get consensus, and make everyone happy.  By
> Western standard, this is "weak, lack of direction, and unclear."  Well, we
> Vietnamese have our own way to master things.  Focus on our ability to
> compromise and to gain consensus, master this art, so that we will become a
> master in the art of building consensus.  This is a great skill in business
> and politics.  As a nation, let's use our skill to be the Peace Maker in
> this world full of conflicts.
>
> Fourth, instead of presenting a list of "bad habits," I would encourage
> people to present a list of good habits to learn instead.  We don't have to
> say, 'We Vietnamese are lazy."  We just have to say "We must work hard to
> win."
>
> Don't say, "We Vietnamese are impatient."  Just say "We must be patient to
> win.'
> Don't say, 'We Vietnamese are wishy washy."  Just say, "We must be strong
> and decisive to win."
> Don't way, "We Vietnamese are socially irresponsible."  Just say, "We must
> be socially responsible to win."
>
> When some one does something wrong, tell him that he is wrong: "You are
> socially irresponsible, Mr. Xuan."  But don't make it a "Vietnamese thing."
>
> Focus on ourselves and our strength.  Encourage each other to learn good
> habits.  Forget about the bad habits, if you learn the good, you
> automatically eliminate the bad.
>
> We need to focus solely on the positive, positive, positive.
>
> We need to erase all negative thinking and negative talk from the face of
> the earth.
>
> Then we will be champion.
>
> Have a great day, brother Binh and all.
>
> Hoanh
>
> ___________
>
> On 9/30/06, Binh, Vu The <binh at netnam.vn> wrote:
> >
> >
> > [Vietnam Business Forum]
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear a. Hoanh et CACC,
> >
> > Thanks for sharing ideas/opinions. My interest about Japanese &
> > Vietnamese
> > is not related to
> > >> When we rely on things outside us, we don't make progress.
> >
> > I will try to go back from the beginning of this discussion thread to
> > make
> > my opinions clearer.
> >
> > Brother Toan posted some of "the bad habits of VIetnamese".  From my
> > views,
> > those "bad habits" are quite similar to lots of Vietnamese people,
> > especially the one who have been growing up and staying in Vietnam,
> > including the youngsters who were born after 1975.
> >
> > A. Hoanh replied:
> >
> > >> Why do we have to focus on our so-called "weaknesses" so much?
> > >> Why do we have to always focus on how bad we are in this, how weak we
> > are
> > >> in that?
> > >> Why do we have to be so obsessed with our own so-called "weaknesses"?
> >
> > I don't think "we" - Vietnamese nowadays are focusing so much in the
> > weaknesses. Instead, as I quoted in the previous message, Vietnamese are
> > quite optimistic to express their "strength" such as smart,
> > hard-working,
> > fast-to-learn, etc.
> >
> > >>Of course, we should be aware of our weaknesses and limitations, just
> > so
> > >>that we know our Self.
> > >>And we should improve our weaknesses as much as we can.
> > >>... we have to focus on our strength, our advantage, not on our
> > weakness,
> > >>our disadvantage.
> > Agreed. But it seems that Vietnamese nowadays forget to see about the
> > weakness, the bad habits. So generation by generation, the bad habits
> > could
> > not be improved. Some newspapers are trying to raise the awareness about
> >
> > this, including "Sport & Culture" magazine, which has a very interesting
> > column "Người xưa cảnh tỉnh - Thói hư tật xấu của người Việt". I don't
> > know
> > if you have chance to read it, as there's no online version.
> >
> > >>Should you focus on your strength, say, a very logical mind, to become
> > a
> > >>mathematician instead?
> > >>If you body is slender and light, should you try to be a body builder
> > >>instead of a swimmer?  And as a nation, should Vietnam focus on the
> > >> >>industries it can't do so well, instead of the industries it have
> > great
> > >>competitive advantage?
> >
> > The problem is the bad habits are not related to the born-characters,
> > but
> > related to the educational and family systems. It's not related to
> > physical
> > limitations.
> >
> > When the kid throw rubish to the road (a bad habit), should his mother
> > stop
> > him and educate him not to do that? Or she just forget it and focus on
> > motivating him in mathematic to win the "math olympic" competition.
> >
> > Those "bad habits" are listed with the intension for Vietnamese people
> > to
> > improve themself/ourself. Self-improving is the key point to make people
> > being perfect.
> >
> > Seeing the light side of the Moon is nice, but forgetting the dark side
> > is
> > dangerous. I'm sure that all of the VNbiz members don't have much the
> > "bad
> > habits" listed, as they/we are educated well, I guess. But for lots of
> > Vietnamese people, this is a really an issue. Living here day by day,
> > working here day by day, you will see it.
> >
> > Forgetting the "bad habits" of Vietnamese people: we will be dreamers.
> > Those
> > are one of the key challenges to keep Vietnam not yet in the top
> > countries
> > of the World.
> >
> > Just my humble opinions,
> >
> > Have a nice weekend,
> >
> > Binh.
> >
> > --
> > Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
> > Attorney of Law
> > Washington DC
>
>
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