[Vnbiz] (The Bad Habits of Vietnamese)

[Craig Stevenson]

Toan,

I wasn't thinking that you were practicing it (exceptionalism)  based upon
your preference for submission of the article.  Simply that I believe it is
counterproductive to formulate growth policies for Vietnam by attempting it
(to have growth) to be based on tenets of exceptionalism.  Certainly the
homogenity and unity of Koreans and Japanese contributed to their
development yet also world realities during their growth phases contributed
greatly as others policies impacted their (J's+K's) preferential access to
markets as well as enabled political systems that also contributed to their
growth (MITI).

Point being, their is much more competition for markets today than was ever
the case when J and K were establishing the foundations for their success.
Of course my analysis could be wrong but I don't believe it to be.

Anyway, Vietnam has a good sized young population, industrious people, the
same intelligence dispersed as everywhere on earth, a bountiful country, and
many benefits.  It, by my opinion, needs to work to develop systems to
ensure that these opportunities are not squandered, needs to ensure that the
fruits of its peoples labors are distributed equitably, and that systems and
policies are created that set the foundation for national security and
prosperity rather than lining the pockets of those corrupt officials who
value personal possession more than national growth.  This is somewhat a
prickly point for me as I am an anti-materialist.  As I grow older, I want
and, truly, need less and less.

Now what systems? Good questions.

Conquering those problems often discussed on this forum is key.

Education, graft, inefficent systems and policies that may serve individuals
rather than the nation as a whole.  This is a discussion deserved to be had,
both bottum up and top down.

The nation should continue to deal harshly those who put themselves before
the people.  Those who illegally enrich themselves at the expense of
others.  Those who would fail to do what is best for the country to mainatin
their position simply for material wealth.  Those who are spiritually
bankrupt.

I know an older lady who is probably worth several hundred million dollars,
comes from a very famous business family.  She has a car.  Drives it
everyday.  That car is more than twenty years old and is only a basic
model.

Vietnam does not need people to emulate the shallow value of materialism
while others go without or a nations future is squandered.  Believe me I saw
it growing when i was there.  Those in positions of power in business and
government, and their families, need to be less enamored of possession, have
less desire for material wealth, and need to be happy to put their people
before themselves.

Remember, Marx was an economist not a businessman or politician.  From
ability to need is not meant to be a political statement, yet rather an
economic directive.  Surely things have changed since Marx wrote those words
so long ago, as well have, and are, nations, but the value of that statement
is simple.  If you care about your nation and people.  Be willing to set
your desires aside for the betterment of your neighbor.

To build an ideology that we are different, better, or similar is simply
counterproductive by my estimation.  Better to work on ourselves and demand
that those things holding back the betterment of ourselves and neighbors are
changed.  And the sooner the better.

Craig







On 10/1/06, ToanDucPham at GMail.com <toanducpham at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> [Vietnam Business Forum]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear anh Hoanh, anh Binh, anh Craig, and other CACEs,
> Anh Hoanh oi, you said:
> ===
> ...
> I understand Tien Phong's purposes when they post that series of
> articles about bad habits of the Vietnamese.   However I seriously have a
> problem with that.
> First, as mentioned earlier, most problems on the list are not exclusively
> Vietnamese.  Arrogance, impatience, laziness, etc...  are very abundant
> in any society in the world.  When we say that these are Vietnamese
> problems, we really look down on ourselves.
> ...
> ===
>
> Well, what would you say about this article below?
> ===
> http://www.tienphongonline.com.vn/Tianyon/Index.aspx?ArticleID=61955&ChannelID=7
>
>
> Chủ Nhật, 01/10/2006, 12:45
> Tự ti vĩ đại
> TPCN - Một anh hàng xóm của tôi, nghèo rớt mồng tơi, sáng ngồi quán cà phê
> khoe sắp được bảo lãnh xuất ngoại, mặt anh vênh lên như giàu có đến nơi.
> Nhưng mấy năm anh vẫn ở nhà, vẫn nghèo.
> Cũng hàng xóm của tôi, có ông khoe có bà con là Việt kiều ở nước nọ nước
> kia, có ông khoe có con gái sắp làm dâu gia đình Việt kiều.
> Lại có người có "bà con làm quan" hoặc được chụp ảnh đang đứng gần vị lãnh
> đạo nào đó là đem khoe khắp nơi. Mặt rạng rỡ, miệng tươi cười cứ như họ cũng
> sắp được làm quan hay là "quan phẩy".
> Tôi từng chứng kiến một người bảo cái người có tấm ảnh chụp với lãnh đạo
> là cất đi, khoe thế đủ rồi thì người có ảnh sửng cồ lên và họ cãi nhau.
> Không ra làm sao cả!
> Chẳng riêng dân nghèo. Thỉnh thoảng tôi nghe vài người khá giả khoe dòng
> họ, quê hương có bao nhiều người làm cán bộ ở tỉnh, ở Trung ương. Sau kỳ Đại
> hội Đảng là vồn vã bắt tay "chúc mừng quê anh có nhiều người vào Trung
> ương".
> Có lần tôi nói thẳng: Tuy cùng quê nhưng tôi chưa bao giờ được gặp các ông
> "đồng hương" quan to ấy. Người ta cứ bắt tay tôi chúc mừng và người ta cũng
> mừng vui với tôi như thể vì thế mà chúng tôi vinh dự hơn hay sao ấy?
> Một hôm tôi được mời đến một phường chứng kiến "sự kiện đặc biệt". Đến nơi
> thấy có mấy cán bộ hưu trí ngồi quanh một cái bàn nhỏ phủ vải đỏ, trên đặt
> bộ ấm chén sứt mẻ.
> Một cán bộ hưu trí đứng lên long trọng giới thiệu: Bộ ấm chén từng được
> một vị lãnh đạo hoạt động bí mật hồi kháng chiến sử dụng. Tôi hỏi làm sao
> biết được?
> Cán bộ hưu trí khuyên tôi bình tĩnh để nghe kể tiếp: Họ đã tìm được căn
> hầm bí mật mà một lần đi công tác qua đây, vị lãnh đạo nghỉ đêm và sử dụng
> cái ấm sứt này. Nhưng nơi làm căn hầm bí mật nay là vườn cây của một gia
> đình và cần tiền mua lại xây dựng nên một "địa chỉ đỏ", họ nhờ tôi viết bài
> tác động để xin kinh phí.
> Tôi thật khó xử, mấy chục năm kháng chiến, những nơi các vị tiền bối dừng
> chân đếm làm sao hết, ấm chén bát đũa các vị dùng chắc cũng rất nhiều? Trong
> lúc đó các cán bộ nghỉ hưu sôi nổi bàn tán với niềm tự hào chân thành là
> phường của họ có thêm địa chỉ đỏ, hơn hẳn phường bên cạnh.
> Cuộc sống nghèo khổ, lạc hậu kéo dài làm cho con người Việt Nam có khát
> khao cháy bỏng về sự giàu sang, vượt thoát lên cho "bằng chị bằng em", bằng
> thiên hạ.
> Nhưng hoàn cảnh "phép vua thua lệ làng" ràng buộc, người Việt Nam ta sinh
> ra hay tìm lối thoát bằng cách dựa dẫm, không dựa được cụ thể thì "dựa hơi"
> và lấy đó để tự an ủi. Một người tự an ủi, nhiều người cùng tự an ủi, có khi
> cả dòng họ, cả xã, cả huyện cùng tự an ủi bởi một điều không đâu. Thật là
> một tính cách "tự ti vĩ đại".
> Sáu Nghệ
> ===
>
> Cheers,
> Em Toan.
>
>
>
>
> On 9/30/06, Tran Dinh Hoanh <tdhoanh at gmail.com> wrote:
> > [Vietnam Business Forum]
> > Dear Brother Binh & CACC,
> > Thanks, brother Binh, for the clarification.
> > I understand Tien Phong's purposes when they post that series of
> articles
> > about bad habits of the Vietnamese.   However I seriously have a problem
> > with that.
> > First, as mentioned earlier, most problems on the list are not
> exclusively
> > Vietnamese.  Arrogance, impatience, laziness, etc...  are very abundant
> in
> > any society in the world.  When we say that we these are Vietnamese
> > problems, we really look down on ourselves.  We sound like the Japanese,
> the
> > American, the French don't have such problems or they have less than we
> do.
> > That is wrong.  We cannot fix any problem when we diagnose the wrong
> cause.
> > As far as I can see, typical human weaknesses (arrogance, looking down
> on
> > the poor, impatience, laziness,...) is about the same in any
> society.  The
> > difference in the level of development is in something else.
> > Second, many of the "bad habits" listed are not even "bad
> habit."  Example:
> > Smiling.  Smiling before, during, and after talking is a very good
> thing.
> > Smiling makes us relaxed mentally and makes everyone else happy.  Why is
> > such a bad thing?  I remember reading Pham Quynh's Gi Cung Cuoi (Smiling
> to
> > Everything) when I was high school.  Pham Quynh was consider one of our
> very
> > influential culturalists and intellectuals of the early 20th
> century.  He
> > heavily criticizes us Vietnamese for smiling all the time.  Obvious he
> was
> > studied with the grumpy French and grumpy Confucians, so he hated
> smiling.
> > For many years I believed in Pham Quynh until I realized that smiling is
> a
> > very good thing.  I would love my employees to smile all day.
> > We tend to take habits of foreign countries (that are more powerful than
> we)
> > and say they are  good.  And our habit, if different from a foreign
> habit,
> > then that is a bad thing.  Maybe our habit makes us poor and backward?
> > Ten years ago, the Singaporean government had to have a "Smile"
> campaign, to
> > tell the Singaporeans to smile.  And here in Vietnam we say smiling is
> bad.
> > Isn't that crazy?
> > (Of course, in international trade, we need to understand body
> language.  I
> > would say: "If you talk to a European and an American, when you want him
> to
> > know that you are deadly serious, you don't want to smile, because they
> may
> > misunderstand your smile.  Other than that, smile as much as you can,
> > because smiling is always a winner").
> > So, my big problem here is that we look down on ourselves so much that
> we
> > even think about our strength as our weakness.  That is a serious
> serious
> > serious development problem.  If a beautiful girl keeps thinking that
> she is
> > ugly or a smart girl thinks that she is stupid, she will have a lot of
> > problem trying to develop herself in life.
> >
> > Third, so here is the big problem that I see in our society:  We look
> down
> > on us and measure ourselves by the other people's standards.  We go to
> > France and learn not to smile so much, then when we come back to our
> home we
> > say 'smiling is bad."  Come on!
> > We need to be confident in our own culture and strength.  Tell the world
> to
> > visit Vietnam because we are "The Land of Smiles"  (Could someone please
> > forward this to Vietnam Tourism and submit it for its slogan. Maybe we
> will
> > win some money for a round of Pho for everyone in VNBIZ).
> > Another example is Buddhism, for years as I grow up, Buddhism is
> considered
> > by the Vietnamesee intellectuals as backward and obsolete.  Today the
> > Westerrn world is discovering it as a very sophisticated and peaceful
> system
> > of thinking and living.  Tell the world to visit Vietnam because we have
> we
> > are the "Land of Zen" (Please forward this to Vietnam Tourism too).
> > Another "bad habit" is that we Vietnamese don't like confrontation. When
> we
> > work we want to compromise, get consensus, and make everyone happy.  By
> > Western standard, this is "weak, lack of direction, and unclear."  Well,
> we
> > Vietnamese have our own way to master things.  Focus on our ability to
> > compromise and to gain consensus, master this art, so that we will
> become a
> > master in the art of building consensus.  This is a great skill in
> business
> > and politics.  As a nation, let's use our skill to be the Peace Maker in
>
> > this world full of conflicts.
> > Fourth, instead of presenting a list of "bad habits," I would encourage
> > people to present a list of good habits to learn instead.  We don't have
> to
> > say, 'We Vietnamese are lazy."  We just have to say "We must work hard
> to
> > win."
> > Don't say, "We Vietnamese are impatient."  Just say "We must be patient
> to
> > win.'
> > Don't say, 'We Vietnamese are wishy washy."  Just say, "We must be
> strong
> > and decisive to win."
> > Don't way, "We Vietnamese are socially irresponsible."  Just say, "We
> must
> > be socially responsible to win."
> > When some one does something wrong, tell him that he is wrong: "You are
> > socially irresponsible, Mr. Xuan."  But don't make it a "Vietnamese
> thing."
> > Focus on ourselves and our strength.  Encourage each other to learn good
> > habits.  Forget about the bad habits, if you learn the good, you
> > automatically eliminate the bad.
> > We need to focus solely on the positive, positive, positive.
> > We need to erase all negative thinking and negative talk from the face
> of
> > the earth.
> > Then we will be champion.
> > Have a great day, brother Binh and all.
> > Hoanh
> >
> > ___________
> >
> > On 9/30/06, Binh, Vu The <binh at netnam.vn> wrote:
> > > [Vietnam Business Forum]
> > > Dear a. Hoanh et CACC,
> > > Thanks for sharing ideas/opinions. My interest about Japanese &
> Vietnamese
> > > is not related to
> > > >> When we rely on things outside us, we don't make progress.
> > > I will try to go back from the beginning of this discussion thread to
> make
> > > my opinions clearer.
> > > Brother Toan posted some of "the bad habits of VIetnamese".  From my
> > views,
> > > those "bad habits" are quite similar to lots of Vietnamese people,
> > > especially the one who have been growing up and staying in Vietnam,
> > > including the youngsters who were born after 1975.
> > > A. Hoanh replied:
> > > >> Why do we have to focus on our so-called "weaknesses" so much?
> > > >> Why do we have to always focus on how bad we are in this, how weak
> we
> > are
> > > >> in that?
> > > >> Why do we have to be so obsessed with our own so-called
> "weaknesses"?
> > > I don't think "we" - Vietnamese nowadays are focusing so much in the
> > > weaknesses. Instead, as I quoted in the previous message, Vietnamese
> are
> > > quite optimistic to express their "strength" such as smart,
> hard-working,
> > > fast-to-learn, etc.
> > > >>Of course, we should be aware of our weaknesses and limitations,
> just so
> > > >>that we know our Self.
> > > >>And we should improve our weaknesses as much as we can.
> > > >>... we have to focus on our strength, our advantage, not on our
> > weakness,
> > > >>our disadvantage.
> > > Agreed. But it seems that Vietnamese nowadays forget to see about the
> > > weakness, the bad habits. So generation by generation, the bad habits
> > could
> > > not be improved. Some newspapers are trying to raise the awareness
> about
> > > this, including "Sport & Culture" magazine, which has a very
> interesting
> > > column "Người xưa cảnh tỉnh - Thói hư tật xấu của người Việt". I don't
>
> > know
> > > if you have chance to read it, as there's no online version.
> > > >>Should you focus on your strength, say, a very logical mind, to
> become a
> > > >>mathematician instead?
> > > >>If you body is slender and light, should you try to be a body
> builder
> > > >>instead of a swimmer?  And as a nation, should Vietnam focus on the
> > > >> >>industries it can't do so well, instead of the industries it have
>
> > great
> > > >>competitive advantage?
> > > The problem is the bad habits are not related to the born-characters,
> but
> > > related to the educational and family systems. It's not related to
> > physical
> > > limitations.
> > > When the kid throw rubish to the road (a bad habit), should his mother
> > stop
> > > him and educate him not to do that? Or she just forget it and focus on
>
> > > motivating him in mathematic to win the "math olympic" competition.
> > > Those "bad habits" are listed with the intension for Vietnamese people
> to
> > > improve themself/ourself. Self-improving is the key point to make
> people
> > > being perfect.
> > > Seeing the light side of the Moon is nice, but forgetting the dark
> side is
> > > dangerous. I'm sure that all of the VNbiz members don't have much the
> "bad
> > > habits" listed, as they/we are educated well, I guess. But for lots of
>
> > > Vietnamese people, this is a really an issue. Living here day by day,
> > > working here day by day, you will see it.
> > > Forgetting the "bad habits" of Vietnamese people: we will be dreamers.
>
> > Those
> > > are one of the key challenges to keep Vietnam not yet in the top
> countries
> > > of the World.
> > > Just my humble opinions,
> > > Have a nice weekend,
> > > Binh.
>
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