[Vnbiz] Education Reform

[Tran Dinh Hoanh]

Dear Dennis & CACC,



Thank you for the good response, Dennis.  Good to hear from you, brother.



Since you talk about US education, let me share with you my experience about
US education.  About 20 some years ago, I spent a lot of time
helping Vietnamese newcomers in the US.   I helped them learn English (for a
while I taught ESL in a local college), get into school, find jobs etc.  For
many young adults (18 to 30), my number-one goal was to encourage them to
have a college degree.



Imagine, I had in my hand a 25-year-old man with a 10th grade education in
Vietnam, and no English.  The conversation usually went like this:



"I think you should go to college."
"Teacher, you're kidding.  Me?  Are you crazy?"
"I'm serious."
"No way.  College is not for me.  I'm old, no education, no English."

"I'm not kidding.  Do you want to go to college?"

"Of course, who wouldn't like a college degree?  But I can't dream about
it.  Not for me."

"Do you trust me?"

"Yes."

"If you want to go to college, I guarantee that you will have a bachelor
degree if you just listen and do what I show you to do.  Can you do that?"

"Yes."



Generally I get a book on GED (General education diploma) the equivalent of
high school diploma.  I teach them to go through that book, each day a bit
(with a dictionary on their hand and a bit of explanation from me every
day).  Even if you have only 5th grade education, with some help you can
master the book in several months.  Then you go to take the GED test.  Most
of the time you will pass it, even if your score may be low.



Then you go to a local community college and take a "placement test."
Placement test is the kind of test to know where you math is, your English
is, etc...  Whatever score you have, the school will have a class for you.
Even if your score is too low, the school will admit you and place you in
the low class (which doesn't count toward college credit).    Generally, the
school will always be able to place you in an academic track, at exactly the
level you are, then help you move up gradually.



After you finish a two-year community college you can ask to be transferred
to a four-year college to finish your bachelor degree.



None of my students have ever failed in that road.  My brother came to the
US when he was 19 or so with a 10 grade education.  But he was under average
student even in Vietnam.  The first time I mentioned the work "college" I
could see fear in his eyes.  He had always thought that college was out of
his hand anywhere in the world.  In addition, being my brother, he seemed to
think that everything was a piece of cake for me and very difficult for
everyone else, so when I said "easy" he would think it was not really easy
at all.  So I had two strikes against me.  I told him: "I know exactly where
you are.  I know that there is little left of school in your head now.  But
trust me.  I guarantee that you won't have to learn anything harder than you
can learn and you will have a bachelor degree."  Five years later he
graduated with an engineering degree from a reputable private university.



Several years ago I talked to a PhD who used to chan bo (shepherding the
cows) in Lai Thieu.  I think Tuoi Tre had an article about him.  He had no
educational all, other than some primary school in Vietnam.  He spent time
watching the cows for his family, until he got to the US and got a PhD in
Physics or mathematics (I forgot) some years later.  He told me: "If I were
still in Vietnam, I would have been on the backs of cows still.  It is
impossible for me to grow this way in Vietnam.



For people like us, the principle is simple: In the US, anyone can have any
degree at any level if he wants to.  And that is the kind of opportunity we
want our kids to have in Vietnam.



Many students do not go to college and don't finish college education in the
US, because they don't want school and want to make money earlier.  This
economy has that opportunity.  Bill Gates is a good example of college
dropout.  My daughter, vice president of a bank and making money several
times the kind of money I have ever made, never went to college.   Many
people here don't care about college, because they like other kinds of
opportunities better.


The key is OPPORTUNITY. Give the kids the opportunity and let them decide
whether they want to take it or not.   In Vietnam, 60 percent of high school
graduates have no opportunities to gain college education.  We need to
provide opportunity for all (Let me repeat: OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL), if we want
to stick with our idealism of equality and justice.

More than 60 percent of kids have lost their opportunities for college
education, that is not acceptable.  It is injustice as a matter of morality
and stupidity as a matter of national management.



**   Now let me talk about the quality of education, the state monopoly and
stranglehold on the education, and private education.


Dennis, you mention one thing I have heard in Vietnam for about a million
times already.   And, sorry to be frank, that is a lot of BS.  In the old
days, the political theory was that private firms simply exploit and cheat
people for their own benefits.  So the State owned and managed everything
and ran everything to the ground, and the country was in a severe state of
poverty.  So we wised up and opened up the private economy.

But that same argument of private abuse is still being used for all these
years until now to allow the State to manipulate the education system, to
have the most immoral and incompetent group of people managing our kids'
minds.



Sorry, as far as the VCP is concerned, we are not talking about education,
we are talking about politics.  They want no one to be able to teach the
kids.  They want to play with the kids' mind the way they think beneficial
for their power base.  If we cannot do anything, the least we can do is to
be honest to ourselves.  (And I want someone to come out and tell me that I
am wrong on this point).



Tell me how much lower our education can go down.  Can any private system be
worse than the state-monopoly system we have now?



Let me talk about competition and private entities.  Of course, there are
many restaurants where the food is bad and waiters and waitresses curse you
as they throw your plates on to your table, as we have talked about on this
forum lately.  That is the nature of free economy.  Along the bad ones,
there are many good and outstanding restaurants that in the "subsidy time"
we never had.  That is the nature of free enterprise and competition.



Same thing with education.  Some private schools may care about money than
quality.  But many private schools will compete fiercely to draw in students
by quality.  In the end, there will be higher quality in general due to
competition. The principle of "quality from competition" is so clear.  Why
are we still asking?



The US does have some very bad colleges.  But guess who are going where to
learn business management.  Where do the Chinese, the Japanese and students
from other countries go for, say, MBA?  Answer:  The US is the number-one
destination in the world.



Competition will bring QUALITY and OPPORTUNITY for the students.  The state
can help quality improve by (1) fostering competition among universities,
not by smothering competition, and (2) providing some quality guidelines by
"certification" (so that students may know which school is "state certified"
which one is not, so that they can make their education choice).



How hard that is to do that?  But all logic will become useless, until the
VCP realize that the future of our children is the goal of education, not
the VCP's exclusive right to play with their mind.



Tell me that I am wrong.   Please, someone!  I do want some serious people
to tell me that I am wrong.  I hope seriously that I am wrong.  I hope that
someone can convince me that the VCP does sincerely care for our children.  I
want to hear good things.  Because I am so sick and so depressed by the bad
news I have to hear every day.  The truth is, if I don't pray like crazy
every day to cool me down, I would have exploded like a bomb already.


BTW, Dennis, I have talked about these educations issues non-stop for 15
years.  Millions and millions students have lost their opportunities to grow
during that 15 years (Let me repeat:  We are talking about MILLIONS of
youths already), and whatever meager achievement you can cite from
statistics, Dennis, does NOT impress me.  It is this kind of achievement:
"Look, although my strangling hands are still around your neck, you can see
that today I let you breathe a little easier than yesterday.  We do have
some improvement, don't we?"

Do we know what Stockholm Syndrome is?


My God, a fever is burning me!



Have a great day, Dennis and all.



Hoanh


On 8/13/06, Dennis' Yahoo <dberg at fullerton.edu> wrote:
>
>
> [Vietnam Business Forum]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Hi Hoanh....
>
> Actually, 40% admission seems like a good increase from just five or ten
> years ago; I'll have to check the numbers.  I do remember in the early
> 90's we talked about 1 in 10 high school graduates being admitted to a
> college or university.
>
> On the one hand we want them to strengthen their current institutions; on
> the other we suggest they increase the number of seats and Universities. We
> have to be real about our expectations. There are successful models of
> private institutions in Vietnam; e.g. RMIT. There are however many private
> institutions that are nothing more than for profit diploma mills. I believe
> MOET is trying its best to keep a handle on things. Private institutions
> depend on raising money through student fees and that, for a good university
> with good faculty, usually puts the opportunity out of the reach of many
> students; thus the failure of so many attempts at joint degree programs with
> foreign institutions.
>
> Allow me to remind you about some data from the U.S.
>
>  Only 70% of all students in public high schools graduate, and only 32% of
> all students leave high school qualified to attend four-year colleges.
> Only 51% of all black students and 52% of all Hispanic students graduate,
> and only 20% of all black students and 16% of all Hispanic students leave
> high school college-ready.
> The graduation rate for white students was 72%; for Asian students, 79%;
> and for American Indian students, 54%. T
> The college readiness rate for white students was 37%; for Asian students,
> 38%; for American Indian students, 14%.
>
> This data is taken From: Public High School Graduation and College
> Readiness Rates in the United States
>
> *Jay P. Greene, Ph.D.*<http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ewp_03.htm#greene>,
> *Senior Fellow, Manhattan Institute for Policy Research
> **Greg Forster, Ph.D.*<http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ewp_03.htm#forster>,
> *Senior Research Associate, Manhattan Institute for Policy Research*
>
> *Funding for this report was provided by the Bill & Melinda Gates
> Foundation*
> **********************************************
>
> And then, according to the U.S. Department of Education:
>
>    - More than half of students entering college are required to take
>    remedial courses, many in several subjects.
>    - About half of first-year students at community colleges do not
>    continue on for a second year.
>    - About a quarter of first-year students at four-year colleges do
>    not stay for their second year.
>    - More than 40 percent of college students who earn more than ten
>    credits never complete a two-year or a four-year degree.
>
> I think if we were to compare our systems adjusted to our GDP with the
> systems of Vietnam adjusted for their GDP, those systems that we all so
> dearly want to see improve would gain a bit more respect. Give me just a
> little of the money we spent on Shock and Awe and we could make one heck of
> a difference in the University system of VN.
>
> Dennis F. Berg, Professor and Chair
> Dept. of Sociology, CSU, Fullerton
> *******************************************
> "Thou shalt not answer questionnaires
> Or quizzes upon World-Affairs,
> Nor with compliance take any test.
> Thou shalt not sit with statisticians
>  nor commit a social science."
> Under Which Lyre: A Reactionary Tract for the Times
> By W. H. Auden
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Tran Dinh Hoanh <tdhoanh at gmail.com>
> *To:* vnbiz at vietlinks.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 12, 2006 9:38 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vnbiz] Education Reform
>
>
>
> [Vietnam Business Forum]
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> Dear CACC,
>
> According to this article 60 percent of students who took the university
> entrance exams have not made it.  It means 60% of candidates won't have an
> opportunity for university education.
>
> In today's global economy, the bachelor degree is generally the lowest
> degree in the market place.  Other than a few exceptional cases, it is very
> difficult to find any decent job in today's economy without a university
> degree.
>
> This means, more than 60 percent of of our nation's highschool graduates
> will not have an opportunity to participate in the global economy
> meaningfully. That means, our labor force is not going to be very
> competitive in the global economy.  That means, we have a great chance to
> lose the competitive battle against other nations.
>
> Instead of opening more colleges and schools very quickly to bring more
> opportunity to the kids and to help everyone to be effectively competitive
> in the global economy, the government has for years held on the monopoly on
> the education system, and strangled it with all kinds of political controls,
> including political ideology and Party mechanism.   Private universities can
> hardly develop.  Religious organizations are banned from opening schools
> (other than a couple of schools teaching religious matters), even though the
> best universities around the world are mostly run by religious
> organizations.
>
> Every time I talked to ANY friend INSIDE Vietnam about opening a
> university, the first response I got ALWAYS was: "Forget it.  Not worth it.
> They will control everything.  They will force you to follow hundreds of
> stupid things.  You won't be able to run your school effectively.  You will
> go crazy.  Not worth it."
>
> You now, cutting off the opportunity of a youth to develop in life is a
> crime.  And that is not just a crime against the youth, it is the crime
> against the nation.  Our youth is our nation's future.  If our youth has few
> opportunities today, our nation will have few opportunities in the world
> tomorrow.   We all shall die, but our children and grand children will bear
> the punishment from our own stupidity after we have gone.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> Hoanh
>
>
>


  --
> Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
> Attorney of Law
> Washington DC
>
>
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